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Friday, November 26, 2004 - 7:04amSanction this postReply
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I'm torn here. As much as I loathe the massive influx of Hollywood liberals into my country, I feel morally obligated to offer assistance to anyone trying to escape the sadistic horror of being forced to drink American "beer". Blech! There has to be a better solution. If only I could afford a million one-way plane tickets to France...



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Friday, November 26, 2004 - 11:01amSanction this postReply
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I believe that Canada should take them in. They could set up a special 'reservation' for them and name it 'Moronica'. After a few decades of close study and research by scientist, the Canadians would have the honor of having discovered the cure for mental retardation.

George

(Edited by George W. Cordero on 11/26, 11:03am)




Post 2

Friday, November 26, 2004 - 12:59pmSanction this postReply
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Brilliant! Thanks for posting this, Barbara.



Post 3

Friday, November 26, 2004 - 1:08pmSanction this postReply
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www.marryanamerican.ca



Post 4

Friday, November 26, 2004 - 4:56pmSanction this postReply
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Robert, I went to the site you suggested. At first, I thought they were joking, and I was laughing -- but then I realized they are serious!

Americans who want to go to Canada should ask this ex-Canadian what they'll be in for.

Barbara



Post 5

Friday, November 26, 2004 - 5:09pmSanction this postReply
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Sometimes the funniest jokes are those not intended as such.

And on the subject of Canada, I always guessed that living there wouldn't be particularly different from living in America, just with higher taxes. Is this assumption incorrect?

(Edited by Robert Bisno on 11/26, 5:13pm)




Post 6

Friday, November 26, 2004 - 8:06pmSanction this postReply
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You are aware that Canada itself has already put the kibosh on Democrats' hopes and dreams of easily moving up there? See Unhappy Democrats Must Wait to Get Into Canada (thanks to LGF)



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Post 7

Friday, November 26, 2004 - 9:40pmSanction this postReply
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Robert, I spent three years in Winnipeg in the early nineties, and so had a close-up view of my home town and my former country after many years of going there only on visits. One does not, of course, have the sense that one is in a foreign country when one is in Canada (unless one is in French Canada); rather, it appears to be an America gone a great deal further down the road to statism, further politically, economically, culturally, and philosophically.

For one thing -- and I'm not exaggerating in what I'm about to say -- in those three years I did not talk with a single person who was not a liberal or a socialist, except for a tiny group of discouraged libertarians who were too passive to do anything more than complain, and except for the people whom I had long ago introduced to the works of Rand. I know that there are other Objectivists and libertarians in Canada, but they are rare and hard to find and, for the most part, they feel terribly alone and futile.

The extent of open anti-Americanism was repellent to me even then, in the early nineties. It was only exceeded by the ignorance of American life and values on the part of many Canadians.

Taxes are astronomical. I don't know how Canadians survive their taxes. Sales taxes are over 14% -- and literally everything one buys is taxed.

There are brilliant doctors in Canada, but due to socialized medicine, they are overworked and underpaid to the point where they cannot do their work properly. My sister-in-law told me, one day, that she had gone to her doctor for her annual physical exam. The doctor spent fifteen minutes with her. One waits months for medical procedures that here a doctor would schedule for a day or two after a diagnosis. During the three years I spent in Winnipeg, there was -- for this city of half a million people -- one MRI machine. And it had only recently been installed. It was too costly to have more than one, the government explained. And Canadians speak of their "free medical care."

In Winnipeg alone, all the emergency rooms but one were closed because the costs had become too high and the doctors too few. After these closings, it took 45 minutes to an hour -- considerably more in the winter storms and icy roads and freezing cold -- for many Winnipegers to reach emergency care, too late of course in a great many cases.


Canadians who can afford it go to the US for medical care. Those who cannot afford it simply die if their wait for such things as heart surgery is too long. And young people are not going into the medical profession; classes in medical school have become so small that there is legitimate fear that there soon will not be nearly enough doctors. Everything is done to entice young people to enter medical schools -- everything but offering to return their freedom.


Even when I was a young girl, talented and ambitious young people left Canada in droves to seek careers in the US. I suspect you'd be amazed to know how many celebrated people in public life -- in the arts, in television, in movies, in journalism, in science, in education,in medicine, etc. -- are Canadians by birth. Today, the problem is complicated by America's much more stringent immigration laws. It seems it is easier to get into the US if one is a Muslim from Egypt than if one is a Canadian from Toronto. We hear a great deal about illegal immigrants from Mexico; few Americans realize that there are hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants from Canada living in the United States. They want a chance to succeed, they want the greater freedom of our country, and they are willing to take risks to do so.

There is much more that could be said, but I hope this answers your question, Robert.

Barbara





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Post 8

Saturday, November 27, 2004 - 5:59amSanction this postReply
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During the late seventies and early eighties, I travelled a great deal to Eastern Canada (Nova Scotia, Quebec and Ontario) on business. In the early nineties, I travelled extensively throughout Europe. I enjoyed both experiences, but always couldn't wait to get back to the U.S. The following is a highly generalized observation, but it is essentially true, I believe:

Europeans and Canadians are tired. There is a weariness in the way they respond to even simple questions.This is a dangerous stereotype if carried too far, but there is a definite grain of truth to it in my experience. Most European cities look like museums to me. Canadian cities are much cleaner than US cities; and less dynamic. (My favorite city in the world is New York. You can feel your pulse rise when you enter it).

Canadians didn't want to be referred to as Americans: that is what they call people from the U.S. I think many Canadians feel that they lose their identity if they are too closely associated with "Americans". ( Interestingly, I have become close to many people from Mexico in the last several years. They are offended if you don't refer to them as Americans, feeling that you are making them second class citizens).
I became good friends with a couple of Canadians. There isn't a large difference in accents, so I always wondered how everyone always knew I was "American" when I first met people in a business setting. Finally, a friend told me why. He said it was "because I was always so happy".

For the few of you who may not have heard this, former Prime Minister Trudeau summed up pretty well how Canada feels about the United States. He said it feels like being "a mouse leaning up against an elephant. It might be a very nice elephant, but every time it moves, you know it."



Post 9

Saturday, November 27, 2004 - 1:14pmSanction this postReply
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This does indeed answer my question.

Thank you Barbara, James.




Post 10

Saturday, November 27, 2004 - 9:09pmSanction this postReply
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Barbara writes:

Even when I was a young girl, talented and ambitious young people left Canada in droves to seek careers in the US. I suspect you'd be amazed to know how many celebrated people in public life -- in the arts, in television, in movies, in journalism, in science, in education,in medicine, etc. -- are Canadians by birth. Today, the problem is complicated by America's much more stringent immigration laws. It seems it is easier to get into the US if one is a Muslim from Egypt than if one is a Canadian from Toronto.
 
What a shame that US immigration policy is so irrational and deliberately braindead. Our PC ideology is really costing us here. America should go out there and absolutely recruit those of high IQ, character, education and talent! And we should start with still the greatest people on earth: Anglo-Saxons, Northwest Europeans, and Jews.




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Post 11

Saturday, November 27, 2004 - 10:15pmSanction this postReply
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Hello Hosers,

Seeing as I am Canadian eh, I thought I would add some comments to the current discussion.

Barbara wrote:
The extent of open anti-Americanism was repellent to me even then, in the early nineties. It was only exceeded by the ignorance of American life and values on the part of many Canadians.
People of low self esteem often try to knock down the person who has more or boasts of having more to make themselves feel better.   I don't imagine most Canadians are different than most Americans in this regard.   As for ignorance, again it cuts both ways.  In fact, I would guess that Americans are much more ignorant about Canada then Canadians are about America.  Let's see, Americans have the Constitution, George Bush, John Kerry, Washington D.C., 50 States, baseball, Krispy Kreme, and Budweiser.   Do you suppose most Americans  know the Canadian equivalents?  Any takers?

Taxes are astronomical. I don't know how Canadians survive their taxes. Sales taxes are over 14% -- and literally everything one buys is taxed.
Tax freedom day in the U.S.A. is April 4 and in Canada it is June 27.  Now that's truly depressing.  

it took 45 minutes to an hour -- considerably more in the winter storms and icy roads and freezing cold -- for many Winnipegers to reach emergency care, too late of course in a great many cases.
"great many"?   I've lived in the Great White North for 46 years and can't recall of hearing about any such cases.  It wouldn't surprise me if they have occurred but I think you are misrepresenting the situation here, especially if you are comparing it to what occurs in the USA.  I live in Toronto, not Winnipeg,  and that may explain the difference in perspective.  I don't have the facts on this but maybe you could provide them if you have them. 

James wrote:

Europeans and Canadians are tired.  There is a weariness in the way they respond to even simple questions
Nice. And Americans are what?  Humorless, obese, bloodlusting, self absorbed boors?  Well, you know, that has been my experience.  I find it ridiculous that an Objectivist  would even attempt to generalize about whole groups of people in such a way. 
Most European cities look like museums to me.
Only an American  would say this, like it is a bad thing.   Sorry for the generalization but I couldn't resist.

My favorite city in the world is New York
I agree, at least if you are talking about Manhattan.  It reminds me of Toronto.

Canadians didn't want to be referred to as Americans
Say what?  You didn't actually try to refer to a Canadian as an American did you?  You didn't get "jerseyed"?  You're still alive?  You didn't actually think they would take kindly to this, did you?  If you did,  then you're dumb as a post.  Please tell me you're kidding.
They(Mexicans) are offended if you don't refer to them as Americans, feeling that you are making them second class citizens).
Call me incredulous but I find this hard to believe.  Can anyone corroborate this statement?

everyone always knew I was "American" when I first met people in a business setting. Finally, a friend told me why. He said it was "because I was always so happy".

Nothing like paying yourself a compliment, eh?   If you talked to Canadians like you've written here, then it is easy to see why they knew you were American.  Don't you see?  Canadians are so damn polite.  They didn't want to hurt your feelings, so they described you as "happy" which, in this context, is our euphemistic way of saying, "you're a pompous, elitist, ass".   And Americans wonder why the world hates them.




Post 12

Sunday, November 28, 2004 - 9:01amSanction this postReply
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Oh dear; oh dear- I go off and attend a seasonal harvest festival and find I've missed all *sorts* of amusements.

Hmmm... glad to be back to them.
First, the serious ones:
What a shame that US immigration policy is so irrational and deliberately braindead. Our PC ideology is really costing us here. America should go out there and absolutely recruit those of high IQ, character, education and talent! And we should start with still the greatest people on earth: Anglo-Saxons, Northwest Europeans, and Jews
I would say the greatest people on Earth are those who have kept the flame of their spirit alive, honed it as reason, and expressed it as passion: they, these few who create life, who are life.  Such people come from all places, races, sexes, and times, yet belong to none- and they begin by the rejection of the heritage, culture, and conformity in which they were expected to take their places.

If America wishes to be their haven and refuge, if it wishes to be not its own nationalism but the nation for individuals- then let it embrace greatness wherever it is found, and not only in utility for its current machine, but in the unwrought iron of undecided spirits in search of a freer life.  Most of the world's potential wonder lies still frozen under the deep ice of a thousand despotisms.  Let us have more trust in the spirit of humanity and say, with Protagoras: "I am a man, and nothing human is foreign to me."

Those who belong to America are those with the flame and courage to live not as they were born but as they choose.  That is America- on wherever continent such a nation may be found.

 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Very well, that said, on to humorous amusements.

I saw the spoof above re Canadian emigration on LP-San Francisco, and although thoughts of leaving America really are serious for those of us in the sex industry, I gracefully acknowledge seeing more than a shard of a reflection in the proffered looking-glass.

As an Ameri-skeptic, leftish-tinged hedonist, sex-crazed idol-worshipping Pagan, and glitter-wearing exhibitionistic sexual actress from California, perpetually anxious of a coming Gotterdammerug from conservative Middle America, I admit I am too admirably contoured in spirit for the designer label: 'Hollywood libertarian'.

But I want it all lit up in neon red.

regards,

Jeanie Ring   )()(
stand for what you're worth!




Post 13

Sunday, November 28, 2004 - 2:17pmSanction this postReply
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Andre: "What a shame that US immigration policy is so irrational and deliberately braindead. Our PC ideology is really costing us here. America should go out there and absolutely recruit those of high IQ, character, education and talent!"

I agree.

Andre: "And we should start with still the greatest people on earth: Anglo-Saxons, Northwest Europeans, and Jews."

I don't agree.

Barbara




Post 14

Sunday, November 28, 2004 - 2:32pmSanction this postReply
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Gerald: " I would guess that Americans are much more ignorant about Canada then Canadians are about America. Let's see, Americans have the Constitution, George Bush, John Kerry, Washington D.C., 50 States, baseball, Krispy Kreme, and Budweiser. Do you suppose most Americans know the Canadian equivalents?"

Yes, as you suggest, Americans tend to know very little about Canada. (I could add, or about Lower Slobovia -- but I won't. Smiley face)

I can't give you statistics about Winnipegers dying before reaching the single emergency ward in this city of half-a-million people; I don't believe they have been published. But my source of information that the number is considerable is friends in Canada.

You object to James' statement that Mexicans want to be referred to as "Americans." I've known well only two Mexicans -- not the ones James knows -- and both have said they're offended when the term is used only for citizens of the United States and not for them as well.

You wrote: "Canadians are so damn polite."

Usually, yes. But have you tried talking to them about capitalism?

Barbara



Post 15

Sunday, November 28, 2004 - 2:37pmSanction this postReply
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Jeanine: "Those who belong to America are those with the flame and courage to live not as they were born but as they choose. That is America- on wherever continent such a nation may be found."

Bravo!

Barbara




Post 16

Monday, November 29, 2004 - 2:02pmSanction this postReply
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All:   Are you wondering why Canadians are so anti-American? Answer: To a large part it's because of the government's control of the media. They have just now approved Fox News (described as an ultra-right wing channel) for airing next year, after a long battle to stop it, while approving Al Jazerra (the CNN of the East, according to them) with little or no debate. Canadians who wish to get any sort of alternative view have to search hard.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1100794819148_96204019/?hub=TopStories

Sam

(Edited by Sam Erica on 11/29, 2:03pm)

(Edited by Sam Erica on 11/29, 2:04pm)




Post 17

Monday, November 29, 2004 - 2:31pmSanction this postReply
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They have just now approved Fox News (described as an ultra-right wing channel) for airing next year, after a long battle to stop it, while approving Al Jazerra (the CNN of the East, according to them) with little or no debate.
Are you serious?!

Now that is truly scary, and would be an example of disgusting gall that even France would have trouble matching.

George




Post 18

Monday, November 29, 2004 - 4:47pmSanction this postReply
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George:  Are you really surprised? Here's some more of the "protection againt American cultural imperialism."

http://www.globalpolicy.org/globaliz/cultural/canadian.htm

Exerpts:
But the music and anti-American lyrics -- reflecting common Canadian views -- were written by members of the Guess Who, a popular Canadian band of the 1970s. That gives "American Woman" the two points it needs under Canada's intricate system of rankings to help meet CHUM-FM's government-imposed requirement that 35 percent of its daytime playlist be devoted to Canadian content
Welcome to the bizarre world of Canadian cultural regulation, a sometimes arbitrary, often contradictory system of rules and measures cobbled together over several decades to protect Canadian culture -- not just music but film, television, magazines and literature -- from what some Canadians consider the menace of American cultural imperialism. Canada is not alone in trying to draw a Maginot line against Mickey, Rambo and Homer Simpson.
By most counts Canada is the Death Star of cultural fortifications, bristling with regulatory armaments to preserve what little is left of its own cultural territory. But at a glance it might appear the battle is already lost. Eighty percent of what Canadians watch on television, outside of news, comes from the United States. So do up to 80 percent of English-language magazines on Canadian newsstands; 65 percent of the songs heard on the radio, 60 percent of English books and 95 percent of feature films. No other country is so vulnerable to invasion by the American colossus
Critics say the maze of cultural restrictions really is intended to protect the 700,000 Canadians who depend on culture for their jobs. But those like Norman Jewison, the director of "Moonstruck" and "Fiddler on the Roof," argue that much more is at stake. "This isn't just cars or refrigerators for sale; this is ideas," Jewison said. "And when you start exporting ideas, philosophies, behavior, products, ways of living, it becomes an assault on the culture. Americans have to understand that."




Post 19

Monday, November 29, 2004 - 4:51pmSanction this postReply
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Are you really surprised?
Yes, I am.

I knew of the anti-Americanism, but not the degree.

George




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