RoR: Forum

You have no idea how long I've been wanting to do this kind of thing...

Post 1

Wednesday, April 15, 2009 - 1:18am

I've contributed financially to RoR in the past, and I, too, once inquired about whether or not a recurring contribution system existed. At that time, it did not.

I did wonder, though, if one could be set up? For instance, this site accepts Paypal payments. And Paypal does have a mechanism in place to allow businesses to offer "subscriptions" to users, in which a set amount is deducted from a user's account every month until they cancel or modify their subscription.

Now, I'm not sure whether or not the monthly amount can be 1) decided by the user, and 2) adjusted at times (based on their financial comfort level), or if it has to be set by the business (RoR) to be the same for all subscribers. If the latter is the case, you may see some people unable or unwilling to subscribe because they don't have enough control over their contribution. (Of course, this would all have to be worked out between Joe Rowlands and Paypal.)

My wife and I have started using T. Harv Eker's jar system for managing our money. Part of it includes a "Give" account in which we allocate money to worthwhile charities and organizations.

While I think it's great that you want to give to RoR, Tyson, (and I'm sure the charities you give to are quite appreciative as well) I was wondering about the "Give" account as a necessary part of a sound financial plan?

Why is it that every "how to become a millionaire" guru guy has a plan that automatically includes "giving"? (Eker's hardly the only one.) One guy I've read advocates giving something to your church. Everything else he says is sound financial advice, but then he throws in, "Don't forget to give 10% to whatever religious organization you belong to." (Huh?)

Of course, there's nothing wrong with giving if you truly want to, and you can afford it, but I was wondering, how can anyone actually try to justify it as part of a sound financial plan? (The other guy I mentioned does...but only because he truly believes that at least part of his success in life comes from God, so he thinks giving back to God will help you, too.) So maybe Eker believes in altruistic karma, or something---which may be fine for him---but I don't buy into that. So whenever I hear any of these expert millionaire people give financial advice, I try to follow the sensible ideas, but I ignore the "give" one, personally. (Or I take the "give" amount...and "give" it to myself in a savings account. That counts, right? :-)

Just curious, Tyson, as to why you feel following Eker's "give" rule is necessary to the rest of the system he teaches?

Post 2

Wednesday, April 15, 2009 - 8:23pm

Hi Tyson,

Thanks for your interest, and in bringing up the topic.

Currently I pay about $20 a month for web hosting of this site, plus a few domain names that I have to re-register every year. Aside from that, the site doesn't really require any funds. I'm more than happy to accept donations to pay for these fixed fees. I have this page:
http://rebirthofreason.com/About/Contribute.shtml

In the past we used funds for other projects, but we had a more active staff and we were interested in developing a real organization. I've scaled back my expectations here, as well as the amount of time I can allocate. So at this point, I wouldn't know what to do with money if we had a bunch. There are possibly a few features that could be added to the site. Possibly I could pay someone to add the support, but even the ones I have in mind are oriented at reducing my own workload here. The other possible use is to pay our editor (Teresa) for all of her hard work.

If someone else is interested in trying to take on a leadership role here, I'd be happy to work with them. Until that happens, I think our need for cash is limited to fixed costs and donations to the editor. If you have other suggestions, I'm all ears.

Post 3

Wednesday, April 15, 2009 - 10:07pm

Thanks Joe for your response. I'll respond to you after I kindly address Teresa and Erica.

First Teresa, now is the time! The RoR site has a tremendous platform for growth.

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Second Erica, as a second generation financial professional I gave this response a great deal of thought today at work. Unfortunately, yes, Eker does intend for the Give account to be for a Law of Attraction-esque quid pro quo pact with the universe. He recommends this be 10% of your after tax income into the Give account. But my wife and looked at each other, knowing we had the same thought, and decided it should be 5%. I've investigated many money management systems and Eker's jar system provides, by far, the best balance of simplicity, discipline, and elegance. I otherwise recommend it. It constrains spending while building for the future.

In terms of the actual allocation of funds to RoR- it's hardly a "Give". I get tons of value here and I don't think my loyalty to the site is enough- thus the money. I want to bring my relationship here in alignment with those of my other ideological and philosophical partners (TAS, FEE, and Reason). At least with them I pay money and get a magazine. Here I get tons of content for the cost of my time, but not money.

And why do I think the give rule is necessary? Although it's not absolutely necessary, I think having an element of giving is an important part to a well-rounded money management strategy. We all have relationships and organizations that provide us with so much value. Having a little money to allocate to them to foster their growth focuses us on our values. The experience gained by giving to organizations throughout your financial life far outweighs the value to investing those funds and then contributing to them after x amount of years nearer to the end of your life.

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Joe:

Thanks, sorry I missed the contribute page. Glad to see you are happy with the site and that you are trying to automate it as much as possible. I knew that it was likely a fiscally lean and mean site. So I thought that the money could be used for projects.

Ideas? Well, a continual budget for a Google Adwords campaign. How much for an ad in The New Individualist or Reason? A monthly copy of The Fountainhead, Atlas Shrugged, Economics In One Lesson, or the like, sent to an address of choice along with a well-crafted letter. And yes, a token of gratitude to Teresa and the rest of the exec here would be a nice gesture.

Those are my thoughts. Is anyone else considering a contribution? And what are your ideas for the money?

All the best,

Tyson

Post 4

Wednesday, April 15, 2009 - 10:12pm

Here... I put my money where my mouth/mouse is! Contribution made!

Seller Information: Rebirth of Reason
customerservice@rebirthofreason.com

This Payment will appear on your credit card statement as "REBIRTHREAS"

Placed on Apr. 15, 2009
Payment For Quantity Price
Tyson Russell Contribution to RebirthofReason.com 1 $20.00 USD
Subtotal: $20.00 USD
Sales Tax: $0.00 USD
Total Amount: $20.00 USD

Tyson
(Edited by Tyson Russell on 4/15, 10:13pm)

Post 5

Thursday, April 16, 2009 - 1:49am

Hi Tyson.

Thanks for responding!

First off, for the record:

I was not questioning why you would give funds to RoR, or to any other charity that you deem worthy. And I never would. No explanation is needed.
So your response about contributing in exchange for the value you derive from RoR, and other recipients, was eloquent, but unnecessary...you are preaching to the choir. :-)

My question---my only question--- concerned the notion of "giving" being justified as part of a sound financial plan (as laid out by the gurus) and why you agreed with that, (as you seemed to.)

And why do I think the give rule is necessary? Although it's not absolutely necessary, I think having an element of giving is an important part to a well-rounded money management strategy. We all have relationships and organizations that provide us with so much value. Having a little money to allocate to them to foster their growth focuses us on our values. The experience gained by giving to organizations throughout your financial life far outweighs the value to investing those funds and then contributing to them after x amount of years nearer to the end of your life.

You say that an element of giving is important to a "well-rounded money management strategy", but what you go on to describe sounds more like it is part of a well-rounded life management strategy. You mention allocating money to the relationships and organizations that give us value, and how that focuses us on our values...that was brilliantly, and beautifullly put, Tyson, and of course, I understand your point.

But as I said, what you're advocating sounds more like "happy life advice"...and not strictly "sound financial advice".
And while I was originally only wondering in terms of financial advice, I do appreciate very much what you've had to say about all of it, and I thank you again for elaborating.

Erica

Post 6

Thursday, April 16, 2009 - 3:04am