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Post 0

Saturday, October 9, 2004 - 5:25pmSanction this postReply
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What a . Is the left really so intellectually bereft that pathetic excuse for commentary as this can get printed in Britain's premier left-wing newspaper?

"Everyone from Madrid to Bali is now drawn into the "war on terror" declared by President Bush."

FWIW, Australia just voted on the issue and the result was an overwhelming endorsement for Howard and the continuing War on Terror. See for example http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/10/09/1097261864643.html

(Edited by Peter Cresswell on 10/09, 11:03pm)


Post 1

Saturday, October 9, 2004 - 10:49pmSanction this postReply
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The world can keep its problems away from america thank you very much.   I am paying for enough benefits for the unfortunate, old, poor, and stupid.  I don't want that number to increase more.   I can't imagine having to support the welfare costs of europe on top of social security, medicare, state and federal income tax and our soon to be 9% sales tax here in my county. (8.25% currently)

If the people of the world want a say in what america does they can immigrate here and help pay for the old folks.  Otherwise they can shush up.

~E.


Post 2

Saturday, October 9, 2004 - 11:49pmSanction this postReply
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Peter, you wrote: "Australia just voted on the issue and the result was an overwhelming endorsement for Howard and the continuing War on Terror."

I didn't know that, and I'm delighted to hear it.

Barbara



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Post 3

Sunday, October 10, 2004 - 4:01amSanction this postReply
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"we do not need to break free from the imperial power - we need to tame it"

This seems to represent a common malaise of the leftist:
1] Misunderstand the Good
2] Despise what you misunderstand
3] Control what you despise.

1 is the failure to think rationally
2 is the failure to apply justice
3 is... totally outrageous! Even if you’ve stepped through 1 & 2 without one single axon firing in your wilfully neglected frontal cortex, at the very least, if you don’t want to contradict your own twisted values, you should destroy what you despise!

Mr Freedland (which is an ironic name if ever I’ve heard one) seems to think... no, make that, “feel”... that Imperialism is ok as long as the shots (literally, inevitably) are called by his fellow statists.

If impact on the world establishes a right for other countries to vote, then lets have Americans voting during the next elections for Iran, North Korea, China, and Saudi Arabia.


Post 4

Sunday, October 10, 2004 - 8:42amSanction this postReply
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Peter:

I don't know if you are in Austtralia..and how much of the campaign you saw if you are...

If you WERE in Australia you would have seen that the campaign barely mentioned anything to do with the war on terror... its main points of difference were upon domestic issues. Interest rates, logging in Tasmania, a bit of dirt slinging here and there... but the War on terror got little mention.

So to say that the 'Australia just voted on this issue' as if that is the only issue Australians were concerned about is not accurate at all. Howard won on domestic issues.



Post 5

Sunday, October 10, 2004 - 4:07pmSanction this postReply
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Hi Martin,

You said: "So to say that the 'Australia just voted on this issue' as if that is the only issue Australians were concerned about is not accurate at all. Howard won on domestic issues."

That was really part of my my point, I guess, although I was perhaps a little hasty in making it without the necessary argument. Every election in wartime is about War - unlike the situation in the American election , or the earlier Spanish election,  in this election the war was a largely a non-issue suggesting an overwhelming endorsement of Howard's actions to date in supporting Bush and the War on Terror.

As an issue in the Australian election the war was pretty much a non-starter, or as one report called it a "sub-text." Labour said they would have the troops home by Christmas; Howard said they would come home when the job was done. Labor's Latham decried Bush as "the most incompetent and dangerous president in living history"; Howard is two-hundred percent behind Bush.  When the embassy building in Jakarta was bombed, Labor's poll rating went down - an indication that Australians for the most part agree with Howard's handling of the War. Labor tried to raise it as an issue, but found no real traction with it.

By not being an election issue it seems to me that Australians were saying: "We agree with Howard's actions in supporting the War on Terror - that's a done deal. Let's talk about the issues here at home." And in the final analysis, the result was a landslide.

There are alternative views of course, e.g: www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,11033737%255E2702,00.html

(Edited by Peter Cresswell on 10/10, 9:49pm)


Post 6

Sunday, October 10, 2004 - 4:27pmSanction this postReply
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As the world's sole superpower, the US now has global authority. But where is the consent?
I wasn't aware a permission slip was required. 


Post 7

Sunday, October 10, 2004 - 4:43pmSanction this postReply
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Jonathan, you wrote: "Mr.Freedland . . . seems to think that . . . Imperialism is ok as long as the shots (literally, inevitably) are called by his fellow statists."

Isn't that the belief of all statists?

Barbara


Post 8

Sunday, October 10, 2004 - 7:19pmSanction this postReply
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"'Imperialism is ok as long as the shots (literally, inevitably) are called by his fellow statists.'

Barbara: Isn't that the belief of all statists?"

Well you know that, and I know that - but in my experience, it is rare to find a socialist/statist that is brazen enough to admit such a lust for power explicitly.

It will usually be couched in terms that drip with altruistic intent.

Imperialism implies direct force - which even many socialists find distasteful. Statist usually rely on the perversion of existing systems, and the sanction of the victim.

Mr Freedland seems to have no wish to engage in the usual pantomime. Where's reality Mr Freedland? "It's behind you!"

Post 9

Sunday, October 10, 2004 - 8:12pmSanction this postReply
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OK Peter... fair enough...

To change the topic entirely... and I am not sure if this should go on this thread. But I have no idea how to start another thread - and it is a question I have about New Zealand politics... so it IS related.

In the latest election here (I live in Sydney) one thing which was constant across almost all electrotes (whether traditional Labour of Liberal) was a rise in the Green vote.

Interested in this I started to read the Green Party websites, and other information about the Australian Greens and was interested to find a book called "The Greens" which outlines green policy and philosophy. This book was co-authored by Bob Brown (as you might expect)...but also by Peter Singer - which came as a surprise to me. I knew that Singer was a 'deep ecologist', and environmentalist, and a utilitarian(ist) and had a lot in common with the Greens - but I did not know that he was actually instrumental in forming Green policy in Australia....

AND NOW...here is my Question:

How much has the philosophy of Peter Singer influenced Green Party policy in New Zealand?

There you go have fun with that one....

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Post 10

Monday, October 11, 2004 - 10:45amSanction this postReply
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Freedland wrote a book called "Bringing home the revolution" which was very pro America. I think his article is a ironic(he is making a joke that resonates with people over here).U.K.
Although I support the war in Iraq very few people here do which makes them wonder how their government can act against popular feeling. Don't take it so personally,its just people feeling helpless against American power which makes us feel a bit insignificant sometimes! 


Post 11

Monday, October 11, 2004 - 11:17pmSanction this postReply
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David, it hadn't occurred to me, but you may be right. In which case: Oops!

Barbara

Post 12

Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 10:37amSanction this postReply
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Barbara, may I apologise if my post may have seemed a little disrespectful to you ,I forgot to mention how much I enjoyed your book and how usefully it filled in my knowledge about A R who is perhaps rather less well known here than in the U.S.
Sadly " the mother of parliaments" seems to be moving farther from liberty every year and their are few here who even seem to care. Solo helps to keep my spirits up!


Post 13

Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 9:42amSanction this postReply
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David, you were perfectly polite. And I'm glad that you enjoyed my book.

The title of my book (plug!) is "The Passion of Ayn Rand: A Biography."

Barbara



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