RoR: Forum

Barbara,

If true then this is indeed a very worrying and saddening article (the Guardian is a socialist publication which frequently issues lengthy corrections columns, though this article seems to be a reprint from elsewhere). Whatever one thinks of specific military actions by various US regimes, to blame Americans for destroying the world simply beggars belief!

MH

Post 1

Wednesday, October 20, 2004 - 5:53am

MH, if you doubt the truth of the article -- which I once would have done -- there's a book I read recently which I think you'll find very interesting. It's "Anti-Americanism," by a Frenchman, Jean-Francois Revel.

He describes the extent of European anti-Americanism, particularly in France; the picture is worse than anything one would expect. It is truly chilling to realize how much we are hated. And he describes what he believes to be the reasons for this hatred. "We are in the presence," he writes, "not of rational analysis, but of obsession." It involves a blind and willful rejection of fctual and verifiable information about America.

If one wishes to understand the world we live in, and the challenges we face, this book should be read.

Barbara

Post 2

Wednesday, October 20, 2004 - 6:08am

This is a rather foreboding article. As I am considering moving my life abroad, I find it very disturbing. It seems that things have gotten progressively worse -- I was in France right after the beginning of the Iraq war, and had to listen to many a diatribe from a taxi driver, but they were never hostile toward me specifically.

Should make for an interesting journey. Good thing I can fake a number of accents. ;)

Post 3

Wednesday, October 20, 2004 - 8:43am

Barbara,

I don't doubt there is unfortunately a growing "anti-Americanism" problem in the UK, I just normally take anything from the Guardian with a pinch of salt. Indeed most of the leftist opposition to the Iraq invasion over here (including in the Guardian) had more to do with anti-Americanism than any rational argument. I certainly meant no disrespect to yourself :-) As for the French, many of them have never forgiven the "anglosphere" countries for World War II.

Now ladies, if either of you come over here in the near future, do let myself and/or the other SOLO UK guys know. We'll defend you. ;-)

MH

Post 4

Wednesday, October 20, 2004 - 8:49am

I have never been to Europe, and have always wanted to go to visit the various landmarks of Western history. However, the pervasive anti-Americanism that seems to be festering there is gradually making my interest level decline. I have no interest in getting lectured and shamed for no reason. There are enough parts America I have yet to explore anyway.

Post 5

Wednesday, October 20, 2004 - 9:12am

Excellent, Matthew. I always wanted to have a security detail. I can pretend you are all part of my harem. ;)

Post 6

Wednesday, October 20, 2004 - 11:45am

Having been to london (and the rest of europe) several times in the past couple years, I can honestly say i've never experienced anything like this in england. I get subjected to "please tell me you aren't one of the people who voted for bush" litmus tests, combined with rants about how evil mr W is, but that's really about it. Even france really isn't that bad. Either that, or i'm lucky.

The one place I will complain about in this respect, however, is italy. I've been mugged in rome. In florence, some stupid kid tried to knock me to the ground while sarcastically yelling "we love george bush over here!" And, years and years ago, while in venice, I came across a graffito which read: "Bill Clinton = $ = swastika" (only with an actual swastika, not the word). Yikes.

Post 7

Wednesday, October 20, 2004 - 12:26pm

Jen,

Only pretend??? ;-)

Robert,

I'm glad you've not experienced any anti-Americanism here. It isn't widespread but sadly it does exist. Do you come here often? If you're coming again sometime feel free to ask myself or one of the other SOLO UK guys about our meetings - I'm not the UK co-ordinator but if one happens to coincide with your visit I'm sure you'd be welcome :-)

MH

Post 8

Wednesday, October 20, 2004 - 3:37pm

Thank you for the reference to Revel's new work, Barbara. I've read The Flight From Truth several times and found it extraordinarily educational.

And Matthew: are you hinting that the Guardian reprinted this article in part to tell their readership to cool it? It looks like the mob's a'growlin' over there.

Post 9

Wednesday, October 20, 2004 - 6:13pm

Matthew:
I hit up London every year that I can, usually in june.
next time i'm there i'll let you know,

Robert

Post 10

Wednesday, October 20, 2004 - 6:32pm

I don't have first-hand knowledge of how Europeans treat Americans, since I haven't been there in a while, but Revel presents detailed accounts of anti-Americanism that make the account I posted convincing.

I agree, MH, that this is a very worrying and saddening article. And scary. And Revel makes it clear that the French attitude is even worse, if one can imagine that.

Robert, you wrote: "Having been to london (sic) (and the rest of europe (sic)) several times in the past couple years, I can honestly say i've (sic) never experienced anything like this in england (sic). I get subjected to "please tell me you aren't one of the people who voted for bush" (sic) litmus tests, combined with rants about how evil mr (sic) W is, but that's really about it"

The things you say you are subjected to are precisely what the article is presenting. Since the writer lives in England, it's reasonable to think that she would be exposed to more such rants than you would be as a visitor.

I heard on the television news yesterday and today that some Brits are writing to Americans -- Americans whom they don't know -- to tell them not to vote for George Bush! Bush the "idiot" and the "warmonger," that is. I'm happy to say that the responses they receive are a lesson in the language of four-letter words.

Barbara

Post 11

Thursday, October 21, 2004 - 2:01am

Ms. Iannolo-

Hmmm... I might consider moving abroad myself sometime... and as a cultural leftist, some of my friends are considering leaving as well. I wonder if our Kiwi hosts could say how Americans are received in New Zealand?

regards,

Jeanine Ring

P.S. I'm delighted though not surprised if you possess a curious skill at accents; we need more sensuous exploration of the flavors of human speech. Oh dear... I've never known any good 'escorts' who didn't either love accents or have such a plural sense of self they ranged over several accents naturally. Smooches!

Post 12

Thursday, October 21, 2004 - 5:40am

Perhaps I should consider a career change. Ha!!

we need more sensuous exploration of the flavors of human speech

Well put, Jeanine. And please, call me Jennifer. :)

Post 13

Friday, October 22, 2004 - 10:20am