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Tuesday, December 7, 2004 - 10:27amSanction this postReply
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"Above all, Wagner's music is about the subconscious and the unconscious, about our common experience. And thus the Ring is located somewhere that is nowhere, but, nevertheless, a place we all recognise: the world of myth and legend"

"But in Keith Warner's treatment, what he sees as a remarkable modernity in Wagner's work emerges: 'We have characters who are divorced from themselves. Not knowing exactly what they are doing."

Exactly, a load of mystical psychobabble accompanied by disturbing and disharmonic tunes!!!


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Wednesday, December 8, 2004 - 2:20amSanction this postReply
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Try it again, Marcus. Listen to the whole Ring from beginning to end over a weekend. I'd recommend a good German beer, if you can't find any funny mushrooms which highlighted my first complete non-stop Ring in the late 60's.
There is no music more overwhelming in the world than the last half hour of Die Walkure under the right conditions.

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Wednesday, December 8, 2004 - 9:09amSanction this postReply
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"Exactly, a load of mystical psychobabble accompanied by disturbing and disharmonic tunes!!!"

Not exactly mystical psychobabble...The idea of Wotan's losing an eye, and Brunhilde becoming his second sight, is what Jung and Rand both called introspection. The masculine focus on the outer world becomes balanced by an examination of the inner mental state, a withdrawal of projection, reclaiming what Branden calls "the disowned self," enabling man to see the world Objectively. It can be a disturbing process which does cause disharmony in the mind, because it involves seeing ones self as it really is. So the music can be justified in that sense. Having said that, the music is full of memorable and beautiful melodies, I need not name them, they're probably in your head already!

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Thursday, December 9, 2004 - 6:24amSanction this postReply
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"Having said that, the music is full of memorable and beautiful melodies, I need not name them, they're probably in your head already!"

 

Yes. Feed someone a diet of faeces and may hit a few nuts every so often, believing that they alone have discovered something wonderful and unique.

 

Wagner's writing some good pieces of music does not justify the entire opera.

 

Just as Joe and James may have loved the theme song to Eminems film “8 mile”.

 

Would they now proclaim Eminem a genius and the film a great piece of art? Or would they recognise rubbish when they see and hear it?


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Thursday, December 9, 2004 - 9:24amSanction this postReply
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Hi, Marcus...
Hey, just want to say that I posted my response as an alternate assessment to yours on Wagner's music, not as an attack, or to start any fights.
Since you have not presented any technical arguments regarding the structure of the music, and since I doubt that you have solved Rand's question of how to form an objective science of musical appreciation, I will only say "every man for himself." I can only assume that you are presenting your own response to the music, so to each his own.
Why you want to start up the whole great art war again, I can only imagine. But count me out.

Next time I send the Valkyre's. ;)
(Edited by Joe Maurone on 12/09, 9:24am)


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Thursday, December 9, 2004 - 1:37pmSanction this postReply
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"Why you want to start up the whole great art war again, I can only imagine."

What art war?

If I went into technical details, then I probably would start a war.

Anyway, the points I would cover, I think will be covered shortly by Peter in an article.

Then we can start up a completely new war over his defence of Wagner.

Marcus (= God Of War)
Aurelius (=The Golden One)
Bachler (= A Small Stream)

My name sounds like all the elements you need for a war of Wagnerian proportions anyhow ;-)


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Thursday, December 9, 2004 - 8:38pmSanction this postReply
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Ok, Marcus...no war as of yet. But the Valkyres are on standby...;)

But it sounds like Peter is preparing some sturm and drang of his own ....maybe we'll have a battle of five armies this time!

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Thursday, December 9, 2004 - 9:56pmSanction this postReply
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I liked the theme song to Eminem's "8 Mile," Marcus.  And when it comes to rapping, his rhythm is genius.  Though many of his lyrics are questionable, his technique in the genre is unsurpassed.

Shall I draw my sword?


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Friday, December 10, 2004 - 12:34amSanction this postReply
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*distorted darth vader voice*

Joiiiiinnn the Dark Siiiiiiide, Jenn.....

Come with us.....

Listen to Headbanging Cauterwauling.....

Post on "the autonomist".......

Vote democrat......

The corruption of marrrrrshalll matherssssss.... beckons you to a prominent carreer in EEEEEVVVVIIIIILLLLL

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Friday, December 10, 2004 - 3:12amSanction this postReply
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"I liked the theme song to Eminem's "8 Mile," Marcus."

 

That was my whole point Jennifer. The theme song actually has great inspiring lyrics!!!

I was pointing out that I may applaud the lyrics, even if I think nearly all his other work is full of negativity and insecurity - definitely not for me. Also the film was the biggest load of excrement I have ever had the displeasure of watching!!!!  I only watched it because it was getting rave reviews saying how inspiring it was supposed to be.

 

Anyway. I was drawing a parallel with Wagner's "Ride of the Valkyre". It may be a wonderful piece of music, but does not mean the whole ring cycle is the product of genius!!!


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Friday, December 10, 2004 - 7:52amSanction this postReply
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Ah, it seems I completely misunderstood your point, Marcus.  :)  Sorry about that.

Bisno, I have been known on occasion to listen to headbanging caterwauling, so I think the evil must already be present within me.  As for the latter two, um, nah.  :)


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