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Post 0

Sunday, September 25, 2005 - 8:52pmSanction this postReply
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Man, when that attorney general said, "We're dealing with real live people here, not theories," I had an Atlas flashback.

Post 1

Sunday, September 25, 2005 - 10:08pmSanction this postReply
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I second that notion, only the quote I would have chosen to illustrate the evil is:

In times of emergency we as a country have an obligation to help take care of those who are most vulnerable.


Post 2

Monday, September 26, 2005 - 12:06amSanction this postReply
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They believe "price gouging" is a legitimate concept. Reflect on those two words for a minute and you see that it makes no sense whatsoever. How can you "gouge" with a price?

Now I do think anyone who would take advantage of a desperate person is a total asshole and I would never do business with them again. But the asshole should be free to do what he wants with his stuff. The government should have no involvement.


Post 3

Monday, September 26, 2005 - 12:25amSanction this postReply
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Objectivism--the philosophy for "assholes?" I suggest you check your premises; the "price gouger" is not an "asshole!"

--Brant


Post 4

Monday, September 26, 2005 - 12:51amSanction this postReply
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Objectivism--the philosophy for "assholes?" I suggest you check your premises; the "price gouger" is not an "asshole!"

--Brant


Brant, Objectivism does not promote taking advantage of the weak. It promotes an equal exchange of values. When Dagny placed her order for Rearden Steel he could have charged her a lot more than he did. He knew it. She knew it. We all knew it. But he examined the circumstances and offered it at a lower price than he might have. He was perfectly happy with the price he got.


Post 5

Monday, September 26, 2005 - 4:49amSanction this postReply
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Lance wrote:
It promotes an equal exchange of values.
Pure economic ignorance. That sort of nonsense was debunked over 100 years ago.

People exchange because their values are unequal. Each values what he gives up less than he values what he receives.

Post 6

Monday, September 26, 2005 - 12:53pmSanction this postReply
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Rick,
People exchange because their values are unequal. Each values what he gives up less than he values what he receives.
Yes, that's the beauty of the free market.  Each party subjectively believes he got the better of the bargain.  But in fairness to Lance, you can also term it an equal exchange of value, because that is what it objectively is.  When I trade you "X" in exchange for "Y", "X" objectively equals "Y" in value, even if I want "Y" more than "X" and vice versa for you.  If it didn't, then there would have been no trade.

Andy

P.S.  Didn't we just wrap up a week or so ago a 200-post thread on the subject of price-gouging?

(Edited by Andy Postema on 9/26, 12:54pm)


Post 7

Monday, September 26, 2005 - 1:12pmSanction this postReply
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People exchange because their values are unequal. Each values what he gives up less than he values what he receives.

Yes, and each trader is equally happy with the trade. 


Post 8

Monday, September 26, 2005 - 1:55pmSanction this postReply
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“…each trader is equally happy with the trade.”

Not if you are really good at it. When you’re really good, the other guy is *just barely* willing to make the trade. Otherwise, you have left money on the table, and I never feel happy about that.

Jon


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Post 9

Monday, September 26, 2005 - 3:51pmSanction this postReply
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I think what the government needs to prevent is "tax gouging".

Post 10

Monday, September 26, 2005 - 7:49pmSanction this postReply
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If I were escaping a deadly hurricane, I think I'd have bigger things to worry about than whether or not I get the best deal on gas that I can. If a gas station has ridiculously high prices---and consequently short lines, I'd choose that one. Because my primary priority IS TO ESCAPE THE HURRICANE.

Post 11

Monday, September 26, 2005 - 8:07pmSanction this postReply
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Donald wrote:
"I second that notion, only the quote I would have chosen to illustrate the evil is:

In times of emergency we as a country have an obligation to help take care of those who are most vulnerable."

That't the line that caught me. Very Taggart.

I've been thinking about this, and have been conflicted about my own view. I was called out on the previous thread for using the term "people before profit", which is, yes, a fuzzy concept. I think I've reconciled my feelings on this. To sell something at a lower price than market value may be benevolence on the part of the seller in light of the crisis, if he even sells it at all as opposed to simply giving away supplies. What it is, in essence, is charity. If a business owner does this, I won't fault him for being a bad businessman as long as it's not self-sacrificial.
If a customer is fortunate enough to find such a charitable businessman, good for them. But to demand it through laws is tantamount to theft. The person caught in a crisis can recieve charity though reliefs supplies or lower prices, but they should acknowledge the fact that it is charity. That's why people prepare in good times, when prices are low and product plentiful. The businessman has a responsibility to keep his products in stock to run a successful business; we would not excuse him for stealing from his suppliers in order to stay in business. He is a customer as well. In a crisis, there are those who give charitably without coercion, businesses should not be required to sacrifice themselves.

(Edited by Joe Maurone
on 9/26, 8:23pm)


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