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Saturday, January 14, 2006 - 11:23amSanction this postReply
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Thanks Hudsen!

Stossel is great! He is the current front-man for Objectivism in the popular press. He is one of my heroes. And he is right about public education.

Ed


Post 1

Saturday, January 14, 2006 - 11:23amSanction this postReply
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I have yet to watch the program since I recorded it last night.  But I know of two challenges to Florida vouchers:
  1. Separation of church and state from the federal level downard discourages or outlaws tax money flowing to parochial schools.
  2. The Florida State Constitution mandates a system of "uniform" government-run, taxpayer financed schools 100% free for the students who attend.
The courts ruled in favor of vouchers in defiance of the first guideline but ruled against them in favor of the second guideline.  According to this story:

The ruling cited an article of the Florida State Constitution that says, "Adequate provision shall be made by law for a uniform, efficient, safe, secure and high quality system of free public schools." According to the decision, since the state does not have as much quality control over the private schools they are not meeting the obligations of the Constitution.

Whether this logic is faulty is another matter.  I do know that the Alliance for the Separation of School and State opposes vouchers because it breaches rather than builds a wall of separation between education and state.


Post 2

Saturday, January 14, 2006 - 11:40amSanction this postReply
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Good point, Luke. In spite of the church/state conundrum, I lean toward the voucher system. I consider it the lesser of 2 evils, though I recognize potentially-disastrous consequences associated with that kind of thing.

Ed


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Post 3

Saturday, January 14, 2006 - 2:13pmSanction this postReply
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If people want to use the money they receive from the voucher system to go toward religious education, I'm all for letting them do so with their own money. Its separation of the church and state in the sense that people are free to expose themselves and practice religion to the degree that they want to, not the degree that the state forces them to.

Giving people money so that they can use it in any way they choose is much better than giving people money that can only be used in government transactions.

Religious education is simply a belief system, a way of life, a knowledge base. It pretty much always involves faith.

The state school systems are simply a belief system, a way of life, a knowledge base. It does not necessarily include faith.

Both school systems can separate learning from practical, reality from information, rationalism from science/objectivism.

Only in a system where individuals are free to choose what they learn and who they learn from, will they be able to maximize their ability to learn practical information. Vouchers is a great step. The next step after vouchers would be moving educational funding from coerced means to voluntary.

The change could be gradual. Different parts of the state could experiment with moving toward a more Capitalist system, and they could very easily see the results by comparing it to their socialist/communist systems.

They don't have to instantly change the funding from fully toward schools to fully toward students. My proposal:

Over a 20 year period, each year reduce a public school's funding by 5%, and put this money toward each student in the district to individually choose which school they want to attend. If more parents and children flood to the district, don't increase funding. Simply keep the total funding towards the students at the year's % that the public school's funding has been reduced. People will flood to the area. It will not be necessary to ever increase the funding going toward the individuals past the original public school's budget.

Damn, it is so hard to define what a "school" is, or determine whether a child is spending money toward "education". Taxation is criminal.

Post 4

Sunday, January 15, 2006 - 8:56amSanction this postReply
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The quoted Floridian claimed that humans weren't built for competition, that competition had never worked, and never would. The story extensively covered a Belgian tuition-voucher system; with the same test given to Americans and to Belgians, Americans scored some 40+ points on average, the Belgians 70+ -- one highly-relevant example of countlessly many.

In Massachusetts, home schooling is relatively easy, even if government-school drones are required to be sitting in judgement. There are even cooperative home schools, easing the burden and providing a more social setting. Unfortunately, there are no tax breaks for this; a fair break would be the average per-pupil cost of the local school -- probably far higher than typical property taxes, especially in cities that could use competition the most. I wonder how the average score of home-schoolers would compare with state-schoolers, somehow controlled for self-selection.


Post 5

Sunday, January 15, 2006 - 9:29amSanction this postReply
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I wonder how the average score of home-schoolers would compare with state-schoolers, somehow controlled for self-selection.
I wonder how they score, not on paper tests, but: in Capitalist life, in their ability to live on their own terms, not at the force-initiated expense of others. Give me a society that can score highest on that, and the individuals in that society will also score the highest on any practical test you throw at them-- and they will do so by their own will, not because they are slaves.

Post 6

Thursday, January 19, 2006 - 3:18pmSanction this postReply
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     If  vouchers are usable for ANY (ok, "accredited") 'private' school, properly, that translates to the tax-paying parents as getting some of their money taken in tax and targeted to be used for public schools as being, instead, returned to them for them to use on their other school alternatives.

     That the choice of some of them is for a religious-oriented school is a secondary, and totally separate, point; this has nothing to do with separation of church and state, on the bottom line, if the religious school IS actually "state-accredited". Now, the latter is the point to argue about separation of church and state...not voucher-choices per se.

LLAP
J:D


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