RoR: Forum

This presents a fabulous, unique historic opportunity. In addition to the usual debates, I suggest a nationally televised basketball game -- Obama vs Palin. (See Wikipedia article re Palin.) In order to make the game "fair", both Obama and Palin get to choose a teammate. So it's 2-on-2. Palin can pick whoever she wants provided it's a black man the same height as Obama. Obama can pick whoever he wants provided it's a white woman the same height as Palin. The referee will be appointed by the U.N. Trash-talkin' permitted, of course.

I'll bet on Palin and whomever.

(Edited by Merlin Jetton on 8/29, 2:41pm)

Post 1

Friday, August 29, 2008 - 2:41pm

I see you are just as thrilled by this choice as I am.

Palin & Quayle in 2016!

(Edited by Ted Keer on 8/29, 2:42pm)

Post 2

Friday, August 29, 2008 - 3:12pm

SWEET PICK! KUDOS TO MCCAIN FOR CHOOSING SARAH PALIN FOR HIS VP

By DICK MORRIS
McCain has reached for the stars and grabbed one. On a recent cruise to Alaska, I had the pleasure of spending an afternoon with Sarah Palin. She is brilliant and articulate and, in Alaska politics, is a breath of fresh air as an alternative to their corruption epitomized by Alaska Republican Senator Ted Stevens. Now Obama, who has spent two years preventing a woman from being president, will spend two months preventing one from becoming vice president - and hopes to do so with women votes. The entire premise of the Democratic convention was the fungibility of Bush and McCain. Now McCain has vividly demonstrated the difference. Sarah Palin is no Dick Cheney!

PLEASE FORWARD THIS E-MAIL TO FRIENDS AND FAMILY AND TELL THEM THEY CAN GET THESE COLUMNS E-MAILED TO THEM FOR FREE BY SUBSCRIBING AT WWW.DICKMORRIS.COM!

THANK YOU!

Post 3

Friday, August 29, 2008 - 3:17pm

Now I know why the Democrats chose Denver: what they're saying about Palin is a rerun of Alexis trashing Krystle.

(As Noel Coward once said, thank god for my classical education)

Post 4

Friday, August 29, 2008 - 3:21pm

I never watched the show, but from youtube:

Post 5

Friday, August 29, 2008 - 3:32pm

This is a triumph of process over substance. Palin is about as qualified to be VP as Obama is to be president. That's why she was picked. She's a woman. They can't attack that. She's inexperienced. They can't attack that either. But what does she bring to the table? Her support for creationism and her having raised taxes? ANWR will be the booby prize? This support of process over substance does not bode well for a McCain administration. Will we get frank debates that go nowhere? A peace "process"?

I need a drink.

Post 6

Friday, August 29, 2008 - 3:52pm

I'm at least happy that people will finally learn to pronounce my last name properly.
(Edited by Bob Palin on 8/29, 5:33pm)

Post 7

Friday, August 29, 2008 - 4:13pm

Please, there's no need to be suicidal over this, Bob.

Post 8

Friday, August 29, 2008 - 4:52pm

I got this hysterical message in my "Spam" folder but did a "Reply All" anyway just to goad the sender, encouraging him to take his hysterics elsewhere, kindly informing him of my unapologetic disbelief in animal "rights," and stating that his message has already led me to start liking this woman:

<< This makes me SICK!!! Aerial hunting? How can anyone justify that? that is no sport! makes me physically sick! THIS INFORMATION REALLY NEEDS TO BE SHARED! Any woman that would allow this has no love in her heart!

THIS IS THE WITCH THAT'S HAD THE ALASKAN WOLVES SLAUGHTERED SINCE SHE GOT TO BE GOV.!!! THIS WOMAN WON'T ATTRACT ANY WOMEN IF THEY KNOW WHAT SHE'S DONE & WHAT SHE STANDS FOR!! EVEN THE FEMINISTS DON'T LIKE THAT KIND OF STUFF! A LOT OF PEOPLE HERE ARE GOING TO BE MAD AT ME FOR WRITING THIS WAY,

BUT I CAN'T SIT BACK W/O SAYING SOMETHING & TELLING YOU WHAT A MISERABLE "BITCH" THIS WOMAN REALLY IS. I DON'T WANT TO HEAR THE GOODY GOODY STORY ABOUT HER CHILD EITHER. PLENTY OF OTHER PEOPLE DO THE SAME. EVEN WHEN I'M ANGRY I USUALLY DON'T POST LIKE THIS, BUT TODAY, I'VE HAD IT!

I'M GOING TO KEEP ON TELLING AS MANY PEOPLE AS I CAN ABOUT WHAT SHE'S DONE TO THE WOLVES. THE FAR RIGHT OR SOME OF THE PROFESSED CHRISTIANS HERE CAN CALL ME ANYTHING THEY LIKE B/C OF MY POSTING LIKE THIS. I DON'T CARE. ANYBODY THAT "PROFESSES" TO BE A "GOOD" CHRISTIAN "KNOWS" THAT HUMANS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE "STEWARDS" OF THE EARTH. SO IMHO, IT WOULD BE PRETTY "HYPOCRITICAL" TO WANT A WOLF SLAUGHTERER AS VP. SHE HAS "NO SOUL" JUST LIKE THE ELITES THAT SHE'S CHUMMING UP WITH! I WANT SOMEBODY WITH A SOUL IN THE WHITEHOUSE. WHAT I'D RECOMMEND IS THAT BEFORE ANYBODY MAKES A COMPLETE DOPE OUT OF THEMSELVES, THAT THEY RESEARCH WHAT SHE'S DONE TO THE WOLVES IN ALASKA. SEE HOW THE PEOPLE THERE THINK OF HER FIRST.

RESEARCH WHAT I'VE SAID HERE. I WAS ANGRY ENOUGH ABOUT THE CRAP CHOICES FORCED ON US TO BEGIN WITH. NOW I'M "RIPPING" MAD THAT THIS "BITCH" MIGHT BE GOING TO THE WHITEHOUSE. JUST REMEMBER, PEOPLE THAT HAVE NO PROBLEM SLAUGHTERING ANIMALS WILL HAVE "NO PROBLEM" SLAUGHTERING YOU!! PLESE DON'T TELL ME ANY STORIES ABOUT HOW THE WOLVES WERE RUNNING OVER THE PLACE. DEFENDER'S OF WILDLIFE PROVIDED OTHER OPTIONS & THIS "BITCH" STILL OPTED FOR SLAUGHTERING THEM!!! I EVEN HAD TO STOP FOLLOWING THE STORIES. THEY WERE MAKING ME SICK! WATCH A VIDEO OR 2 WHY DON'T YA? AT THE LAST SLAUGHTER, WHEN THEY ARIAL SHOT & HUNTED DOWN THE MOTHER WOLVES, THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO TAKE THE CUBS THEN PUT THEM IN A SANCTUARY. DID THEY DO IT? HELL NO!!!! THEY GUNNED DOWN EVERY ONE OF THOSE BABY CUBS!! THAT'S TOTAL BULLSHIT!!!!!! CAN YOU TELL I'M REALLY ANGRY?? WELL, I HOPE SO, B/C I REALLY AM!! WE'VE BECOME NOTHING BUT BARBARIC IN THIS COUNTRY! AND IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE THINGS THAT ILLEGALS DO TO ANIMALS, (& I'VE SEEN YOU ALL SAY YOU HATED IT) HOW THE HELL, CAN YOU CONDONE A BITCH LIKE HER. SHE'S NO DIFFERENT. MAYBE WORSE!! THIS BITCH IS SUPPOSED TO KNOW RIGHT FROM WRONG. SHE DOESN'T COME FROM A THIRD WORLD COUNTRY THAT DOESN'T KNOW ANY BETTER BUT TO ACT BARBARIC! THIS WOMAN HAS PROBABLY GOT MORE SCATHING EMAIL THAN ANYBODY!! I EVEN KNOW PEOPLE THAT HAVE SENT HER MAIL THAT WAS BORDERLINE THREATENING.

DITCH THE BITCH!! (THAT'S GOING TO BE MY NEW MOTTO!) YOU'LL BE SEEING ME POST IT A LOT. WE ALL KNOW MCSPAIN PROBABLY WON'T OUTLAST THIS CANCER, & WHEN HE LEAVES THE PLANET, THIS BITCH WILL BE THE CANCER OF THE WHITEHOUSE! EXPERIENCE TO LEAD A COUNTRY???? HA!!! DON'T MAKE ME FREAKING LAUGH. BOY AM I EVER PISSED OFF! (NOW---I APOLOGIZE FOR THE LINGO-BUT I JUST HAD TO GET THIS OFF MY CHEST.) I DON'T LIKE FEELING THIS WAY. SHE BRINGS OUT MY NEGATIVE SIDE. BUT SO BE IT. I CAN'T LET IT GO BY W/O WARNING YOU WHAT SHE'S REALLY LIKE. THINK ABOUT WHAT I'M SAYING HERE. REALLY THINK ABOUT IT. DO THE RESEARCH. AFTER ALL, THAT'S WHAT WE ALL SAID WE'D DO. AGAIN, SORRY FOR THE ANGER, BUT THAT'S JUST THE WAY I FEEL TODAY AFTER HEARING THE NEWS. (PS-- I GUESS IT'S AN INSULT TO DOGS TO EVEN CALL HER WHAT I DO) >>

EDIT: The sender at least had the decency to reply -- in sentence case, no less -- with an apology:

"Sorry, Luther, it was sent meaning to be informational. It was not meant to offend you. I did not realize you were opposed to animal rights - so my apologies."
(Edited by Luke Setzer on 8/30, 4:05am)

Post 9

Friday, August 29, 2008 - 5:40pm

My take on this pick is very different from Dick Morris - I see it massively undercutting McCain's criticism of Obama for being too young and inexperienced. It takes "lack of experience" off of the table. And it detracts from McCain's previous appearance as someone who stood on principle, making him someone who chose to play the Democrat's game of process over substance.

Because this election is very much a contest between evil's, it is important that neither candidate do anything to take away the fear of their opponent - that is, people are really voting against Obama rather than for McCain, and McCain took away the fear of voting for someone too inexperienced, by putting Palin a heart-beat away from a 72 year old candidate with a cancer history. Now both candidates are votes for inexperience.

McCain also doesn't do himself any favors in the area of his other strong criticism of Obama - that Obama is too far to the left. Now his critics can blunt that by pointing out how far to the right Palin is. And, although Palin doesn't tie him to the Bush administration, she doesn't help distance him from religious right who are seen as responsible for much of the current mess the country is in.

Even the tiniest thing wrong with Palin, or any VP choice, is magnified by McCain's age. He should have picked someone that was a more charismatic, younger McCain. Someone that the voters could look at and say, well, if McCain kicks the bucket, that VP would not be any worse.

All of the cynical, grubby backroom calculations of how many undecided democrats were Hillary fans, and how much will having an anti-abortion, creationist VP energize the conservative base, make McCain look as slimy as the rest of the political pack.

Post 10

Friday, August 29, 2008 - 6:10pm

I wouldn't even bother reading a message from someone who writes it in ALL CAPS.

Post 11

Friday, August 29, 2008 - 7:08pm

I just heard about McCain's choice this evening, and was stunned. I can't say I liked any of the choices earlier reported on his 'short list'. Politically speaking, once they both hit the campaign trail, I don't think there will be a net gain or loss. The political positives she might bring to the ticket, will probably be matched by the political negatives.

I do agree that it is going to make the "experience" issue more difficult to negotiate for both candidates.

Other than the political aspects, I know damned little about Palin other than the first few sound bytes I've heard this evening. Hope they get her a coach on "how to look and speak vice-presidential". Maybe she's still stunned herself.

Little point comment on the substance issues of either party. I agree with Steve. This is a contest between two evils.

jt

Post 12

Friday, August 29, 2008 - 7:37pm

Palin was chosen strictly as a matter of political expediency, i.e. attracting the dis-affected Hillary voters. But is she really a defender of limited government and liberty? My stomach turned when, in her speech, she bragged about the fact that her husband was a proud union member. Yep, I'm still voting for Bob Barr.

Post 13

Friday, August 29, 2008 - 7:53pm

Folks - I don't know what you are all smoking, but this is game over. McCain just won the election.

Also, what's all this B.S. about being qualified? Why do you need to be "qualified" to be a President. What are the qualifications anyway. IMO, no one in Washington is "qualified" to be President.

Post 14

Friday, August 29, 2008 - 8:23pm

I wonder if the Biden-Palin debate will be worth watching.

Post 15

Friday, August 29, 2008 - 8:26pm

Erik: "Yep, I'm still voting for Bob Barr."

Still? Boy, it sure is taking a long time for you to pull that lever. Think you'll be done voting by December? ;P

Jordan, who said this wasn't a smart choice for him vote-wise? He should have picked Peri Gilpin tho.

Post 16

Friday, August 29, 2008 - 8:34pm

I don't think Palin is going to win the Hillary voters. Hillary voters have their own agenda. To them, nothing is worse than having five kids. As far as those women are concerned, a woman should never have kids.

Post 17

Friday, August 29, 2008 - 9:31pm

I don't think Palin is going to win the Hillary voters. Hillary voters have their own agenda. To them, nothing is worse than having five kids. As far as those women are concerned, a woman should never have kids.

Those are _not_ Hillary's voters. Hillary's "18 million" are mostly blue collar middle of the road types. I strongly suggest everyone have a look at:
http://www.hillaryclintonforum.net/discussion/

Post 18

Saturday, August 30, 2008 - 12:32pm

I got this unsolicited message forwarded to me from an acquaintance on the MoveOn.org e-mail list:

<< Dear MoveOn member,

Yesterday was John McCain's 72nd birthday. If elected, he'd be the oldest president ever inaugurated. And after months of slamming Barack Obama for "inexperience," here's who John McCain has chosen to be one heartbeat away from the presidency: a right-wing religious conservative with no foreign policy experience, who until recently was mayor of a town of 9,000 people.

Huh?

Who is Sarah Palin? Here's some basic background:
She was elected Alaska 's governor a little over a year and a half ago. Her previous office was mayor of Wasilla, a small town outside Anchorage. She has no foreign policy experience.1
Palin is strongly anti-choice, opposing abortion even in the case of rape or incest.2
She supported right-wing extremist Pat Buchanan for president in 2000. 3
Palin thinks creationism should be taught in public schools.4
She's doesn't think humans are the cause of climate change.5
She's solidly in line with John McCain's "Big Oil first" energy policy. She's pushed hard for more oil drilling and says renewables won't be ready for years. She also sued the Bush administration for listing polar bears as an endangered species�she was worried it would interfere with more oil drilling in Alaska.6
How closely did John McCain vet this choice? He met Sarah Palin once at a meeting. They spoke a second time, last Sunday, when he called her about being vice-president. Then he offered her the position.7

This is information the American people need to see. Please take a moment to forward this email to your friends and family.

We also asked Alaska MoveOn members what the rest of us should know about their governor. The response was striking. Here's a sample:

She is really just a mayor from a small town outside Anchorage who has been a governor for only 1.5 years, and has ZERO national and international experience. I shudder to think that she could be the person taking that 3AM call on the White House hotline, and the one who could potentially be charged with leading the US in the volatile international scene that exists today. �Rose M., Fairbanks, AK

She is VERY, VERY conservative, and far from perfect. She's a hunter and fisherwoman, but votes against the environment again and again. She ran on ethics reform, but is currently under investigation for several charges involving hiring and firing of state officials. She has NO experience beyond Alaska. �Christine B., Denali Park, AK

As an Alaskan and a feminist, I am beyond words at this announcement. Palin is not a feminist, and she is not the reformer she claims to be. �Karen L., Anchorage, AK

Alaskans, collectively, are just as stunned as the rest of the nation. She is doing well running our State, but is totally inexperienced on the national level, and very much unequipped to run the nation, if it came to that. She is as far right as one can get, which has already been communicated on the news. In our office of thirty employees (dems, republicans, and nonpartisans), not one person feels she is ready for the V.P. position.�Sherry C., Anchorage, AK

She's vehemently anti-choice and doesn't care about protecting our natural resources, even though she has worked as a fisherman. McCain chose her to pick up the Hillary voters, but Palin is no Hillary. �Marina L., Juneau, AK

I think she's far too inexperienced to be in this position. I'm all for a woman in the White House, but not one who hasn't done anything to deserve it. There are far many other women who have worked their way up and have much more experience that would have been better choices. This is a patronizing decision on John McCain's part- and insulting to females everywhere that he would assume he'll get our vote by putting "A Woman" in that position.�Jennifer M., Anchorage, AK

So Governor Palin is a staunch anti-choice religious conservative. She's a global warming denier who shares John McCain's commitment to Big Oil. And she's dramatically inexperienced.

In picking Sarah Palin, John McCain has made the religious right very happy. And he's made a very dangerous decision for our country.

In the next few days, many Americans will be wondering what McCain's vice-presidential choice means. Please pass this information along to your friends and family.

Thanks for all you do.

�Ilyse, Noah, Justin, Karin and the rest of the team

Sources:

1. "Sarah Palin," Wikipedia, Accessed August 29, 2008
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Palin

2. "McCain Selects Anti-Choice Sarah Palin as Running Mate," NARAL Pro-Choice America, August 29, 2008
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=17515&id=13661-10212678-YQ6m0ux&t=1

3. "Sarah Palin, Buchananite," The Nation, August 29, 2008
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=17736&id=13661-10212678-YQ6m0ux&t=2

4. "'Creation science' enters the race," Anchorage Daily News, October 27, 2006
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=17737&id=13661-10212678-YQ6m0ux&t=3

5. "Palin buys climate denial PR spin�ignores science," Huffington Post, August 29, 2008
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=17517&id=13661-10212678-YQ6m0ux&t=4

6. "McCain VP Pick Completes Shift to Bush Energy Policy," Sierra Club, August 29, 2008
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=17518&id=13661-10212678-YQ6m0ux&t=5

"Choice of Palin Promises Failed Energy Policies of the Past," League of Conservation Voters, August 29, 2008
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=17519&id=13661-10212678-YQ6m0ux&t=6

"Protecting polar bears gets in way of drilling for oil, says governor," The Times of London, May 23, 2008
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=17520&id=13661-10212678-YQ6m0ux&t=7

7 "McCain met Palin once before yesterday," MSNBC, August 29, 2008
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=21119&id=13661-10212678-YQ6m0ux&t=8

Want to support our work? We're entirely funded by our 3.2 million members�no corporate contributions, no big checks from CEOs. And our tiny staff ensures that small contributions go a long way. Chip in here.
PAID FOR BY MOVEON.ORG POLITICAL ACTION, http://pol.moveon.org/. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee. This email was sent to Mari Butler on August 30, 2008. To change your email address or update your contact info, click here. To remove yourself from this list, click here. >>

Post 19

Saturday, August 30, 2008 - 1:40pm