About
Content
Store
Forum

Rebirth of Reason
War
People
Archives
Objectivism

Post to this threadMark all messages in this thread as readMark all messages in this thread as unreadPage 0Page 1Forward one pageLast Page


Post 0

Friday, December 4, 2009 - 3:37pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Gore is completely delusional.  And dishonest to boot.

Sanction: 6, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 6, No Sanction: 0
Post 1

Friday, December 4, 2009 - 5:54pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit


Why does no one take Al Gore cereal?

Watch the Al Gore ParodyMan Bear Pig at South Park Studios.

(Fixed Link)


(Edited by Ted Keer on 12/05, 8:22am)


Post 2

Saturday, December 5, 2009 - 6:22amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Ted,

URGENT - READ

When clicking the arrow on the second video you posted, it opened what looked like another Safari window (but wasn't) with a full screen advertisement. When I tried to close that window, a pop-up appeared with another ad and saying that Safari had closed (it had), and provided an "OK" button which I would not trust. I was unable to close that window. It also disabled most of my control bar functions, including even shut-down. I was finally forced to do a hard shut-down using the on-off switch on the back of my computer.

Suggest editing this out before someone else gets stuck. If it did this to a Mac, shudder to think what it might do to a Windows machine.

jt

Post 3

Sunday, December 6, 2009 - 5:30amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Lord Monckton seems to be the most vociferous and knowledgeable debunker of not only climate warming, but of Al Gore himself. Often using dat put together by the U.N. itself, he debunks the U.N. stance. Back in November he said we should arrest “The fraudsters and racketeers from Al Gore to the people at the University of East Anglia...", try them, and put them away "for a very long time"! http://www.prisonplanet.com/lord-monckton-shut-down-the-un-arrest-the-warmist-criminals.html Monckton is an amusing man who has a lot of fun making fun of what he calls the "flat earthers", Gore being one of them.

Post 4

Sunday, December 6, 2009 - 8:39amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
No Al Gore, but this episode is even funnier. (See here re the warnings above.)

Two Days Before the Day After Tomorrow

Meanwhile, the flood has a worse outcome than Stan expected. The people of Beaverton are in a disaster area, with some of the town stuck on their roofs. The media begins falsely reporting horrific scenes of violence and even cannibalism in the city. Furthermore, their statistics of deaths are in the hundreds of millions despite a population of 8000 in the town. Nobody really tries to help the situation, but would rather figure out who to blame (George W. Bush, terrorists, FEMA, etc.). The scientists, namely Randy Marsh, are called in to examine the phenomenon. At a conference, they all declare that the disaster is the result of global warming. At first, it is determined the full effects will take place on The Day After Tomorrow. However, some scientists suddenly burst in and state that it has been proven that the disaster will take place "Two days before the day after tomorrow" to which Randy responds "Oh my God! That's today!"



Sanction: 5, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 5, No Sanction: 0
Post 5

Tuesday, December 8, 2009 - 12:57pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Quite an interesting article, going into details on the climategate issue...

http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/images/stories/papers/originals/Monckton-Caught%20Green-Handed%20Climategate%20Scandal.pdf

Post 6

Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 5:42pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Re: Ted's post four, I thought the funniest lines in the South Park episode went something like this:

"Someone is gonna help the people off their rooftops, right?"

"That's not important son. What's important is figuring out whose fault it is."
(Edited by Jim Henshaw on 12/10, 6:01pm)


Post 7

Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 7:16pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
No, the funniest line was the reporter to the anchor,

"We are reporting that there is raping and cannibalism, Phil."
"Do you mean you have seen people being raped and eaten, Sam?"
"No, Phil, we're reporting that people are being raped and eaten."

Post 8

Friday, December 11, 2009 - 6:57amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
It appears that the evidence I've gathered on the topic so far has led me to a conclusion that seems to differ from that reached by the other posters here. The easiest way I can think of to present my point is to simply offer you some of the links on the topic that cropped up in my newsfeed the past few days, and let you consider them for yourself.

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2009/11/the-cru-hack/

> More interesting is what is not contained in the emails. There is no evidence of any
> worldwide conspiracy, no mention of George Soros nefariously funding climate research,
> no grand plan to ‘get rid of the MWP’, no admission that global warming is a hoax, no
> evidence of the falsifying of data, and no ‘marching orders’ from our socialist/communist
> /vegetarian overlords. The truly paranoid will put this down to the hackers also being in on
> the plot though.
>
> Instead, there is a peek into how scientists actually interact and the conflicts show that
> the community is a far cry from the monolith that is sometimes imagined. People working
> constructively to improve joint publications; scientists who are friendly and agree on many
> of the big picture issues, disagreeing at times about details and engaging in ‘robust’
> discussions; scientists expressing frustration at the misrepresentation of their work in
> politicized arenas and complaining when media reports get it wrong; scientists resenting
> the time they have to take out of their research to deal with over-hyped nonsense. None of
> this should be shocking.


http://futurismic.com/2009/11/23/those-hacked-climate-e-mails-good-scientists-poor-conspirators/

http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=1336

http://www.layscience.net/node/805

http://lefarkins.blogspot.com/2009/11/you-dont-need-to-know-what-science.html

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/12/08/climategate/

http://kenmacleod.blogspot.com/2009/11/cru-hackers-reveal-climate-science.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/cif-green/2009/nov/23/leaked-email-climate-change

Sanction: 6, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 6, No Sanction: 0
Post 9

Friday, December 11, 2009 - 2:26pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
This one sentence alone, all by itself, tells me everything I need to know about this apologist set, Daniel:

no evidence of the falsifying of data,
Bullshit. Worse, the apologist who wrote that knows it's bullshit.

I have no interest in mucking through those links, either.  I'd be open to reading a nice summary from you, though.  


Post 10

Friday, December 11, 2009 - 3:17pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
In short, the whole event is a tempest in a teapot.

One of the claims made by those with an anti-AGW stance is that one of the scientists described something as a 'trick', and thus the only possible interpretation is some sort of nefarious evil nasty no-good plot, rather than, say, a clever mathematical hack.

Another point raised is that in one graph, where temperatures are derived from tree-rings, the most recent tree-ring data is thrown out in favour of /direct/, more accurate temperature data. The scientist who created this graph used the word 'hiding', which is, again, taken as obvious incontrovertible proof of evil intent to falsify data, rather than, say, a conscious and well-known way to deal with a well-known issue with tree-ring-based temperatures called the 'divergence problem'.

And so forth.

To sum it up, those who are looking for talking-points to back up their preconceived notions, rather than bothering to look at the evidence and then make up their mind, have decided to cherry-pick the worst possible words and put the worst possible spin on them, for their own political purposes, rather than actually examining the issue for the actual data with which to /then/ make up their minds.

Or, as Cardinal Richelieu is once claimed to have said, "Qu'on me donne six lignes écrites de la main du plus honnête homme, j'y trouverai de quoi le faire pendre.", roughly translated as, "If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him."


Post 11

Friday, December 11, 2009 - 5:14pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
For those who don't know German, Boese is translated as:

1.wicked person
2.evil person
3.baddie
4.villain
5.black-hearted person
6.harm
7.bad
8.evil
9.baleful
10.mad
11.wicked
12.black-hearted
13.naughty
14.ferocious
15.angry
16.cross
17.nasty
18.sore

Sanction: 6, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 6, No Sanction: 0
Post 12

Friday, December 11, 2009 - 5:40pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
You said, In short, the whole event is a tempest in a teapot.

And the decision to exclude dissenting scientists from peer-reviewed journals, even if it means "redefining what peer-review means"?

And the discussion of what a "travesty" it is that the data doesn't support their conclusion?

And referring to anyone that disagrees with them as 'deniers'?

And having contrary articles denied publication by putting pressure on editors of peer-reviewed journals?

And destroying data?

These emails tell us what was already know by many - it isn't science. It is pseudo-science secretly pimping for political goals.

Consider that the question of whether man's actions are resulting in a catastrophic warming of the climate will result in a legally mandated trillion dollar per year difference in our standard of living - that's a big deal!

Placing a severe cap on carbon will cause millions of deaths around the world, and damage the wealth-creation engine needed to create our ability to adapt to changes. But, maybe it won't have much effect on the life of a dishonest academic, whose use of rigged computer models support his multi-million dollar stream of grants.

I don't think that is a tempest in a teapot. I think it is dishonest, bad science, and a cult-like approach to political goals using scare tactics about imaginary, gigantic, climate-based catastrophes to implement a totalitarian control over enormous segments of the market.


Sanction: 4, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 4, No Sanction: 0
Post 13

Friday, December 11, 2009 - 5:44pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
I'm not swayed.  It looks bad for some very good reasons.

Why are the researchers upset over the decade long cooling trend?  Shouldn't they be curious, if not outright overjoyed?

Words mean things.  Asking colleagues to destroy messages doesn't provide much impetus for sympathy, does it? Destroying raw data is seriously unprofessional, not to mention suspicious when coupled with the information brought to light in these emails. It just looks very very bad, and everyone's waiting for the Unit to explain, but so far only apologists and elitist left wing human haters have stepped forward. 

Please, illustrate where any AGW "denier" ever threatened violence against a AGW proponent. Illustrate the flaws in any/all AGWcritics' papers, which were so egregious they warranted blackballing from professional journals.  I should think a paper so riddled with flaws would be a juicy opportunity for peers to prove their research theories.

Peer review isn't easy, but it appears the "professionals" at CRU did their best to make it as easy as possible on themselves to forward this religion at the expense of truth.

wattsupwiththat.com blog today:



 


Yikes again, double yikes! What on earth justifies that adjustment? How can they do that? We have five different records covering Darwin from 1941 on. They all agree almost exactly. Why adjust them at all? They’ve just added a huge artificial totally imaginary trend to the last half of the raw data! Now it looks like the IPCC diagram in Figure 1, all right … but a six degree per century trend? And in the shape of a regular stepped pyramid climbing to heaven? What’s up with that?
 
Those, dear friends, are the clumsy fingerprints of someone messing with the data Egyptian style … they are indisputable evidence that the “homogenized” data has been changed to fit someone’s preconceptions about whether the earth is warming.
 
One thing is clear from this. People who say that “Climategate was only about scientists behaving badly, but the data is OK” are wrong. At least one part of the data is bad, too. The Smoking Gun for that statement is at Darwin Zero.
 
So once again, I’m left with an unsolved mystery. How and why did the GHCN “adjust” Darwin’s historical temperature to show radical warming? Why did they adjust it stepwise? Do Phil Jones and the CRU folks use the “adjusted” or the raw GHCN dataset? My guess is the adjusted one since it shows warming, but of course we still don’t know … because despite all of this, the CRU still hasn’t released the list of data that they actually use, just the station list.

And with the Latin saying “Falsus in unum, falsus in omis” (false in one, false in all) as our guide, until all of the station “adjustments” are examined, adjustments of CRU, GHCN, and GISS alike, we can’t trust anyone using homogenized numbers.
 


Post 14

Friday, December 11, 2009 - 5:31pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Another translation I've heard is 'Bush'. Other references have told me that 'Daniel' can be translated as 'God's Judge', and 'Eliot' as 'height'... leading to the conclusion that my name could mean either 'Divine(ly accurate) judge of the height of shrubberies' or 'Judge of the height of God's wickedness'.

I know at least one other Daniel Boese exists in this world; I'm not sure if there are any Daniel Boeses with the middle name 'Eliot', so I might be the only one. I know for a fact, however, that I am the /only/ person in the world who uses my chosen name in the digital sphere, 'DataPacRat', but this forum didn't permit me to use it.


... and, just out of curiosity, Ted, the literal translation of my name has what, exactly, to do with the politics surrounding climate change?

Post 15

Friday, December 11, 2009 - 5:50pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Ted's crabby.

A sense of humor will take you miles and miles around here. ;)


Post 16

Friday, December 11, 2009 - 5:53pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Perhaps Mr. Boese would like to comment on the programmers notes in the code used to make their calculations, which at numerous points noted where numbers were 'fudged' or guessed at for insertion into the calculations - the net result being that the it would be impossible to assure the accuracy of the calculations. Such speak with far more veracity that just the simple emails where the scientists involved demonstrated their clear bias, and their marked efforts to hide inconvenient data and silence critics. Good science is about facing critics in open debate. These scientists clearly lacked that confidence, and knew their weaknesses.

Does anyone honestly believe that the fortunes of nations should be exhausted on the basis of research for which the key scientists feared to share all the facts?

Bullshit.

jt

Post 17

Friday, December 11, 2009 - 5:52pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
I have a certain suspicion about this thread. If you already believe that the theory of Anthropogenic Global Warming is false at best, then you will trumpet the hacked emails as further evidence to back your cause. If, on the other hand, you already believe that AGW is the rational scientific consensus, then it will be unlikely that the Climategate media feeding frenzy will convince you otherwise.

(As for the points raised by the above two posters, they are already dealt with in the links I posted earlier - in particular, that graph, where you might want to look up the tree-ring 'divergence problem', where it's well-known that in recent decades tree-ring temperature data is less accurate than in earlier decades... as I mentioned in one of my own posts above.)

So, taking one step back, here's a new question: what, if anything, would it take for you to change your current opinion on AGW?


Post 18

Friday, December 11, 2009 - 6:00pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Mr. Abbott, I would be happy to comment on that point - /after/ you, yourself, have read the links I posted above, which happen to cover that point.

There's an old saying that people who like sausage and the law should never watch either being made. This is true about science, too: the people involved try various things, see if they work out, then when they don't, try different things, fudging as they go, until they finally come up with something good enough to be publishable. Scientists bicker, and argue, and are as human as anyone else... and none of that matters, except for the published paper.

As for the deleted raw data... did you bother reading /when/ the data was deleted, by who, and under what circumstances? Or did you simply accept the talking points of the people trying to stir you up against the East Anglians? Did you know that NASA has also deleted large amounts of raw data, simply because it was "too expensive" to keep housing it, an excuse as laughable as the idea that people throw out old newspapers or magazines...

Post 19

Friday, December 11, 2009 - 7:05pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
(As for the points raised by the above two posters, they are already dealt with in the links I posted earlier - in particular, that graph, where you might want to look up the tree-ring 'divergence problem', where it's well-known that in recent decades tree-ring temperature data is less accurate than in earlier decades... as I mentioned in one of my own posts above.)

No. No, it won't.  The graph illustrates temperatures recorded in Australia, at Darwin Airport specifically.  Tree ring data comes from Russia. The graph illustrates the blogger's own calculations, and maps them with those of CRU, and IPCC.   Tree ring data from thousands of miles away isn't included in this graph, nor is it relevant to the blogger's point.  

What those emails show is corruption enabled with tax dollars stolen from me, and everyone else here. The fact that they illuminate what's clearly some cruddy science isn't our fault. The fact that other science, which may have discounted true believer theories, was deliberately slandered and threatened out of professional journals is a very big deal, and can't be waved away. Nor should it be waved away. 


If you're worried about bias, then be very worried. 


Post to this threadPage 0Page 1Forward one pageLast Page


User ID Password or create a free account.