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Tuesday, May 3, 2011 - 11:18amSanction this postReply
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That's a good column. I particularly liked this part:
...Obama said: "We must also reaffirm that the United States is not and never will be at war with Islam. Bin Laden was not a Muslim leader. He was a mass murderer of Muslims."

Pure nonsense. Whether we like it or not, Osama bin Laden was a Muslim leader. Whether the Zuhdi Jassers of the world like it or not, Osama was a Muslim leader. Whether the violent Muslims of the world like it or not (and they do), he was a Muslim leader. Muslims in Indonesia were wearing Osama bin Laden t-shirts when we were over there helping them after the tsunami. He was a beloved figure to millions in the Muslim world because of his devotion and purity to the Islamic jihad.
And if he wasn’t a Muslim leader, why was he buried within twenty-four hours of his death “in keeping with Islamic tradition”? We washed and cleaned this monster? Outrageous.

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As a side note, the column's author seems critical of Zuhi Jassers. I've seen Zuhdi Jassers speak on TV several times and on YouTube and liked what he had to say. He speaks of himself as a devote Muslim. His parents immigrated from Syria for political freedom and he became a Lt. Commander in the US Navy and a medical doctor. He opposes sharia law and jihad and founded an organization of American Muslims to oppose the militants - both the terrorists and those engaged in stealth jihad. He is very critical of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), the Islamic Society of North America, the North American Imams Federation, the Assembly of Muslim Jurists of America, Muslim Students' Association, the Muslim Public Affairs Council, the Muslim American Society, the Islamic Circle of North America, and the Center for the Study of Islam and Democracy, because he sees them as Islamist. To me, he came across as a stand-up American who understands freedom and a thoughtful advocate of a Constitutional government, and someone taking action as a Muslim, against Islamists. He testified before Rep. Peter King's committee earlier this year on domestic terrorism and the threat posed by homegrown Muslim radicals.[Some info from Wikipedia page]

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Post 1

Tuesday, May 3, 2011 - 12:46pmSanction this postReply
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The author says: "Whether we like it or not, Osama bin Laden was a Muslim leader."  Well, yes, but not in the way she means it.  He was a Muslim and he was a leader, but he was not a leader of the Muslims.  That kind of conflation is poor reasoning. 

"He was a beloved figure to millions in the Muslim world ..."  I'd like to see the proof of that.  But even if it's true, there are over a billion Muslims in the world, so that's a couple out of every thousand.

"Muslims in Indonesia were wearing Osama bin Laden t-shirts when we were over there helping them after the tsunami."  All of them?  Wow, that's a lot of t-shirts.



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Post 2

Tuesday, May 3, 2011 - 1:06pmSanction this postReply
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Glenn:

The author says: "Whether we like it or not, Osama bin Laden was a Muslim leader." Well, yes, but not in the way she means it. He was a Muslim and he was a leader, but he was not a leader of the Muslims.


He was a leader of Muslims. But there's no such thing as a leader of the Muslims, meaning all of them, which is not what she said. There is no leader that leads all Muslims, no such thing. Just as there is no leader that leads all Christians, no such thing. Bin Laden was a leader to many Muslims, and that relationship was connected by their common religious beliefs.

"Muslims in Indonesia were wearing Osama bin Laden t-shirts when we were over there helping them after the tsunami." All of them? Wow, that's a lot of t-shirts.


Did she write all of them were?



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Post 3

Tuesday, May 3, 2011 - 1:32pmSanction this postReply
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That's my point, John.  He was not a leader to all Muslims, or even a majority of Muslims.  But most of what she said was irrelevant unless you make this assumption.  She's hate mongering, pure and simple.

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Tuesday, May 3, 2011 - 1:56pmSanction this postReply
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I don't see how she makes that assumption nor that without it, it makes the rest of her argument irrelevant.

But just wondering, is it immoral in your estimation Glenn to hate Islam? Because you can call me a hate-monger too then. I'll wear that badge proudly.

Badge reads: "Hater of Islam, an anti-life religion"

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Post 5

Tuesday, May 3, 2011 - 2:22pmSanction this postReply
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I just wandered onto this thread and did a double take... this is ROR, isn't it? Why WOULDN'T an Objectivist hate Osama Bin Laden? Or most of the Islamic beliefs.

"Hate-mongering" - really, Glenn? That's such a weird take on things.

I'm with John on this. The basic content of the religion is a virulently anti-life, anti-happiness type of religion - The name means "surrender" - and with sharia, jihad, and the massive irrationality... How can a reasonable person NOT hate it?

As soon as I saw that they force their women to wear those bee-keeper suits told me I probably wasn't going to like their approach to life.

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Post 6

Tuesday, May 3, 2011 - 11:25pmSanction this postReply
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From the article: "Of course it’s great that Osama bin Laden is dead. It’s wonderful. People should be celebrating and dancing in the streets. Are Muslims dancing in the streets the way they were dancing when bin Laden took the Towers down? Crowds of cheering Americans gathered Sunday night outside the White House in Washington and at Ground Zero in New York, chanting “USA, USA.” Not a burka in the crowd. I think that’s very telling."

So do I. Weren't the terrorists who hijacked the planes Muslim? They were chanting Allah Akbar ("God is great!") as they sent thousands of innocent people to their deaths and destroyed the Twin Towers. Today, around a thousand people in Pakistan's largest city, Karachi, held a prayer service and vigil in honour of Osama bin Laden. Gaza chief, Ismail Haniyeh, paid tribute to Bin Laden as an "Arab holy warrior." I don't think it's too far from the truth to say that bin Laden was revered as a Muslim leader, not by all Muslims to be sure, but certainly by a great many.


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Wednesday, May 4, 2011 - 2:05amSanction this postReply
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I didn't agree with this: "Not a burka in the crowd. I think that’s very telling."

No, not telling.

No one who wears a burka would want to take a chance they'd be mistaken for the enemy by a crowd celebrating Obama's death. If they wanted to celebrate and were sensible, they'd do it inside, no matter how much they might want to join the crowd. (I remember that Indian sheik, in New York, wearing a turban, which caused some idiots to mistake him for a Muslim not long after 9/11, and beat that Indian cabbie to death).

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Wednesday, May 4, 2011 - 3:07amSanction this postReply
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One little consonant really makes a difference.  Osama, Osama, Osama.

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Wednesday, May 4, 2011 - 7:53pmSanction this postReply
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Good point, Steve. What is interesting, though, is that among the people celebrating in D.C., I did see a woman in Muslim garb.


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