About
Content
Store
Forum

Rebirth of Reason
War
People
Archives
Objectivism

Post to this threadMark all messages in this thread as readMark all messages in this thread as unread


Post 0

Thursday, April 8, 2004 - 8:55amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Today I was driving and saw a sticker that said "No one is free when others are oppressed." I am sure that some here have seen that sticker.

Is this an example of a stolen concept? It would seem that the phrase is taking freedom (or liberty) and applying it to another concept - mankind. Liberty is rather the ability to act upon one's reason which is found in the individual and not he collective right?

Sanction: 2, No Sanction: 0
Post 1

Thursday, April 8, 2004 - 6:38pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Well Tim, you could take it loosely.  It could mean that our freedom isn't very secure when there are others who don't have it.

Or, if you want to take it literally, there is a connection between your freedom and mine.  If I am enslaved and forced to do someone else's bidding, you no longer have the ability to interact with me in any way you like.  I've argued that our rights can be violated indirectly:

http://www.solohq.com/Articles/Rowlands/The_Ethics_-_Politics_Connection.shtml

Speaking of which, I saw an interesting article based on the same principle.  Some people argue there's something called "clustering" when it comes to sexual predators (convicted).  They all end up living near each other.  Part of this is because most people don't want to rent to sex offenders.  Makes sense.  If you're selling yourself as a family-friendly environment, who wants proven sex offenders.  And does anyone really trust that they're "reformed"?

But some apartments will rent to them.  Because there are fewer of them, sex offenders end up all living near each other (so the article claimed).  And the local governments didn't like that.  They thought it might just get them working together or increase their odds of doing something bad.  So they tried to pass a law making these sex offenders not live near each other.

The courts threw it out.  They said that these sex offenders have already been punished for their crimes, and can't continue to be punished.  The laws cannot be aimed at them.

So the government came up with a better idea.  If you can't pass laws restricting the rights of sex-offenders, there's one group of people even more despised in the US.  Businessmen.  So they pass a law against the apartment owners preventing them from renting to too many sex offenders.  As of that time, it was successful.

What's the effect?  Exactly the same as if they had allowed the first law, except that a different set of people would be punished.  But they still prevented an economic exchange between consenting adults.  Do you think the sex-offenders feel any less persecuted now that the law was changed?


Sanction: 3, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 3, No Sanction: 0
Post 2

Saturday, April 10, 2004 - 8:10pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
 Tim Scobey,

Today I was driving and saw a sticker that said "No one is free when others are oppressed." I am sure that some here have seen that sticker.
 
Is this an example of a stolen concept?
 
Technically it is not an example of the stolen concept fallacy.

A stolen concept fallacy, (or smuggled concept), is using a concept to support an argument while denying a concept which the supporting concept logically depends on. This fallacy is called a "stolen" or "smuggled" concept, because an asserted concept includes in its meaning an unnamed concept (so is smuggled in), which is directly, or by implication, denied by the argument. The fallacy is put over by ignoring or evading recognition of the smuggled concept.

For example: "Moral values can never be discovered by reason. Moral values are not objective, they are entirely relative, and every individual must discover for themselves what their moral values are." But, if moral values are not objective and cannot be discovered by reason, what method does each individual use to discover their moral values, and how will they know them when they have been discovered? Even in the grossest versions of subjectivism, such as this example, the fact that reason is the only faculty humans have for discovering and identifying truth cannot be evaded. Once the smuggle concept has been identified, the absurdity of the argument is obvious—"Moral values can never be discovered by reason, therefore everyone must use their own reason to discover moral values."

See Nathaniel Branden's article on the Stolen Concept.

However, the expression, "No one is free when others are oppressed," is fallacious, and belongs to a whole family of fallacies of the order, "when one suffers all suffer," "no man is an island," and, "so long as one person is poor, we are all poor."

These are all collectivist slogans meant to convey, not a concept, but a sentiment, that somehow we are all part of some monolithic entity called society, and whatever happens to anyone in society happens to all of us—it is viciously anti-individualistic.

The essential logical error is context dropping. Obviously, if some poor peasants in China are being oppressed, that does not oppress a single individual in the United States. So, what's the context? Who and where are the others who are oppressed? Why are they oppressed. Is being in jail being oppressed?

Since the statement is not a logical argument it cannot technically be a logical fallacy, nevertheless, it implies several common informal logical fallacies including the following:

Begging the question fallacy - Advancing an argument on the basis of statements which are assumed but need themselves to be proved, or assuming the conclusion or part of the conclusion in the premises of an argument. (Sometimes called circular reasoning.)

Since the expression is a flat-out assumption, the whole thing begs the question. In fact, it is flat-out false. Nothing that happens to one individual happens to anyone else, unless there is some direct connection between the individuals related to that event.

Composition fallacy - Attributing qualities or characteristics of parts of a whole to the whole itself, or attributing qualities or characteristics of some parts of a whole to all parts.

Obviously the expression attributes conditions affecting some members of society to all members of society.

Hasty generalization fallacy - A conclusion or generalization inferred from limited information, inadequate evidence, or a limited sampling.

It is the hastiest of generalizations, since no evidence or argument at all is presented—typical of slogans, especially, collectivist ones.

And finally, by implication, the Impossible conditions fallacy - Arguing that some condition (the state of mankind, the world, the government, or the economy, for example) must be changed before proposed solutions to a problem can be considered, especially when such change is practically impossible.

Because, if it were really true, that so long as one person is oppressed, all are oppressed, no one would ever be free, or ever has been.

Hope this is helpful.

Regi


Sanction: 2, No Sanction: 0
Post 3

Sunday, April 11, 2004 - 12:39pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Joe,

I realized after I posted, it might be taken that I was contradicting your take on the question.

I enjoyed your response and very interesting illustration of "government's" solution to a "problem."

Our tendency as Objectivists to put everything into an objective perspective sometimes make us more magnanimous than is for our own good. In your case, you simply assumed the slogan must have a context to have a meaning, and supplied one, "if I am enslaved and forced to do someone else's bidding, you no longer have the ability to interact with me in any way you like," which is obviously true. But you are too generous.

All by itself, the slogan is without a context, and can be used to justify anything in the name of "relieving the oppression of others," like, "we have to take your money to relieve the oppressed in the Sudan, else we are all oppressed," or other socialist collectivist nonsense.

Regi


Post 4

Sunday, April 11, 2004 - 5:57pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
I'm not sure if this helps put that quote in context, but I have often seen that slogan used by Amensty International.

Post 5

Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 9:57amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Reginald,
I must have missed your post - usually I get emails from Solo showing posts but I guess that one did not come through - thanks for all of the fallacy examples.

Post 6

Friday, April 16, 2004 - 8:26amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Moving slightly off the topic of the stolen concept fallacy, I think I will take this opportunity to quote Star Trek.

"There are some words which I have known since I was a schoolboy. "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." These words were uttered by Judge Aaron Satie -- as a wisdom, and warning. The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged,"
Jean-Luc Picard
 
It is both objective and self-interested to adopt the position that no man's freedom must be impuned; firstly, because the law must be applied objectively to be a law at all -- when a court has no rules, it does not deal with facts, and matters of law become matters of men; and the outcome does not depend on the law, but on pull. (The essence of this last part was in Atlas Shrugged, I believe somewhere around the Comet train crash.) It is in one's own interest for others to be free, because in that way only can a man live in freedom. Once one man's freedom is abridged or removed, there is no certainty for any other.


Post to this thread


User ID Password or create a free account.