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Wednesday, May 19, 2004 - 2:41amSanction this postReply
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As someone who loves self-analysis (especially that which brings about higher states of pleasure), but who isn't very familiar with Objectivist thought, I'd like to ask something. If emotions are a mere bi-product of ones beliefs/values/whatever, then does this mean that no higher pleasure is possible beyond what ones beliefs/values/whatever are capable of supplying? Put another way, if the highest Objectivist emotion were obtained, could a drug or the like increase it? And if it could, then would this be considered, by Objectivist standards, in conflict with the philosophy? I hope not. I believe that pleasure, whose best visitor we're not even close to meeting so far, seduces our focus in the end, not values, even though values etc might lead us up to it.  

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Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 6:09amSanction this postReply
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Hi Darrin,

I have been around Objectivism for a long time and I have never been satisfied with emotions being the consequence of values/thoughts, etc. Can't speak for anyone else, for me, thought and emotioni are engaged in a dance--either might lead, inspire, and then merge. Rand commented about being a child and falling in love (emotion) with either an image or story about a hero. Afterwards she discovered the values of what heroism means, intellectually. That example illustrates my point.

Michael

www.romanticrealism.net


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Friday, May 21, 2004 - 12:01amSanction this postReply
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Yeah, I hear what you're saying, and agree. If an unfamiliar bliss were to suddenly seat itself in us, the fact it might not be to reason's liking is of later concern, surely. And if we do analyse the bliss afterwards, it may indeed turn out that reason supports it, explains it. But what I want to know is: does a potential bliss exist that all reason-based bliss will always fall short of? It can't really be answered, I guess, so I'll ask this instead: does Objectivism, as it stands, consider such to be possible? 

On another note, the name Newberry rings a bell. You used to post in the SOLO group, right? About two years ago, for a month or so, I used to read the occasional post in there, and even contribute now and then - eccentric as I was. And I've returned to do the same thing lately, but can't seem to successfully send my messages all the time (ie. I'm being blocked by the moderators, I think. LOL). I can understand why one post was given the cold shoulder (I was drunk at the time I posted it, so probably made no sense or came off as aggressive like I usually do at such times - I shouldn't post while drunk, I know), but I'm a bit surprized that my last post wasn't accepted. Sure, Howard Roark gets the shit beaten out of him in it, but it wasn't me who delivered the beating - it was the bullies in my dream, which I thought I described quite well. And he emerged victorious in the end anyway, so I dunno. I guess it's the mystery that annoys me most. Being blocked doesn't bother me all that much; it's not knowing why that annoys me. It puts an itchy wart on my already-gnarled-enough brain. Grrr.

Said moderators probably swing by here themselves, so if you want to email me an explanation, or just reply with the same in here, please do.


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Friday, May 21, 2004 - 2:20amSanction this postReply
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I'm one of the moderators, & I can tell you that no post of yours, as far as I know, was rejected. Sometimes posts drop off the radar for reasons we don't know. Dishonest types then pretend we're censoring them. One such liar then burst forth on his own blog accusing *me* of this & that, which he never retracted. I know you're not in that category.

As for accepting the signpost of an emotion before reason has had a chance to come to grips with it, I dealt with this myself in my inaugural SOLOC address, Why SOLO? Look it up if you can be bothered. I made it quite clear that my position is, if no initiation of force is involved, & no obvious reason presents itself as to why you should reject the emotion, GO FOR IT & ASK QUESTIONS LATER!

Interestingly, no one took issue with me when I delivered that address at SOLOC 1. The ARI-Firehammer types were too scared, & everyone else thought what I said was self-evidently true. :-) The only types who could possibly take issue with it are hopeless rationalists - which category, amazingly enough, Rand herself occasionally fell into!

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Friday, May 21, 2004 - 6:26amSanction this postReply
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So my posts to the SOLO forum didn't even get through? How simultaneously awesome and unfortunate! I mean, I was totally pissed while "composing" one, and very alert indeed while penning another. Speaking of which, what becomes of that latter? Should I re-post it? It's a really, REALLY savage post. But it does center around Roark. I think I'll post it. All you can do is behead me, after all.     

I'll check out your article on emotions some time for sure.....

Yep, Ayn Rand certainly had her ridiculous flaws, judging by what I've read so far (her bio, The Fountainhead, not much else), but she kicked away at some pretty damn high-up rocks, so a bit of blood was sure to discolor her ultimate results.      

By the way, in case you or others didn't know, there's a new series on tele here in NZ at the moment about philosophers, which screens at nine each Saturday morning. The first episode was about Nietszchezchshzzecche, and I only caught the last half, godammit. But I wonder if Rand is in the line-up?


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Saturday, May 22, 2004 - 7:11pmSanction this postReply
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As usual, I have to correct my sorry arse: that television series on philosophers that's running in NZ at present screens at 10 am each Saturday, not 9 am. Grr.

What a hard case philosopher they featured yesterday! I forget his name. It probably would have been as difficult to spell as Neietzchsetcheetzhe's though anyway.

-D



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