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Thursday, July 26, 2007 - 8:07amSanction this postReply
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Statements such as 'I don't judge anyone' or 'who am I to say something is wrong?' really drive me nuts. Recently my wife and I had a discussion (argument) over judgment and morality. Her assertion: no one can really judge another person. Just let people do what they like as long as it does not bother (interfere) you.
My contention: judge everyone you meet. Make a judgment on who this person is by what they say and what they do.

I think I understand why people feel the way my wife does. They wish to hide behind the smoke of being neutral so they wont be judged themselves. Of course this is evasive and wrong, however it seems to be the prevailing mood nowadays.

I ask you: is there any justification for being neutral with others; is there any justification for saying 'who am I to say something is wrong'?

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Thursday, July 26, 2007 - 8:30amSanction this postReply
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Steve,
In Rand's article "How Does One Lead a Rational Life in an Irrational Society?" in VOS, she writes:

The policy of always pronouncing moral judgment does not mean that one must regard oneself as a missionary charged with the responsibility of "saving everyone's soul"—nor that one must give unsolicited moral appraisals to all those one meets. It means: (a) that one must know clearly, in full, verbally identified form, one's own moral evaluation of every person, issue and event with which one deals, and act accordingly; (b) that one must make one's moral evaluation known to others, when it is rationally appropriate to do so.

This last means that one need not launch into unprovoked moral denunciations or debates, but that one must speak up in situations where silence can objectively be taken to mean agreement with or sanction of evil. When one deals with irrational persons, where argument is futile, a mere "I don't agree with you" is sufficient to negate any implication of moral sanction. When one deals with better people, a full statement of one's views may be morally required. But in no case and in no situation may one permit one's own values to be attacked or denounced, and keep silent.

Thanks,
Glenn



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Thursday, July 26, 2007 - 8:54amSanction this postReply
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Thats right. I am not interested in being an evangelizer for objectivity, however, I cannot, in good conscious, allow any unwillingness to creep in when confronted with an immoral statement or action.

If you wish to be irrational and claim that all people are equal, that we are all good and bad at the same time, fine. But don't expect me to hide behind this claim when you are the immoral one.

Post 3

Thursday, July 26, 2007 - 10:36amSanction this postReply
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If one is vocal about negative judgments, then it will be difficult to make friends and build relationships. When I hear someone say "Who am I to judge" I hear "but hey, I'm not perfect, and I'm not claiming that I am, even though what I said may have came off snobbish."

Post 4

Thursday, July 26, 2007 - 11:23amSanction this postReply
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Dean, if you mean volunteering judgment at every opportunity than I agree with you. However, if you mean that one should remain silent when someone else is immoral or wrong, I must strenuously disagree. No friend or relationship can ever be more important than justice.

Post 5

Thursday, July 26, 2007 - 11:57amSanction this postReply
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I agree with Steve under the caveat that some circumstances arise when I have to postpone the open pronouncement lest I literally lose my head, e.g. finding myself amidst a group of murderous nutcases.  Justice delayed is not always justice denied but can on occasion be justice assured.

I can think of other circumstances where delaying the pronouncement proves more effective than immediately pronouncing it, but I think the creativity of the readers can imagine those themselves.


Post 6

Thursday, July 26, 2007 - 3:38pmSanction this postReply
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I basically agree with you, Steve, but keep tact in mind.  And be prepared to rationally defend your judgment.  Use every judgement opportunity to be a teacher.  Avoid finger wagging.  Use the Socratic method when possible.

"The practice involves asking a series of questions surrounding a central issue, and answering questions of the others involved. Generally this involves the defense of one point of view against another and is oppositional. The best way to 'win' is to make the opponent contradict themselves in some way that proves the inquirer's own point."


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Post 7

Thursday, July 26, 2007 - 6:35pmSanction this postReply
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Let's say that a professor whom you admire and largely agree with says something that you strongly disagree with in class. Now you have two choices. You can raise your hand and take him to task for it, or you can politely question him, and then later, in private, voice your disagreement in a way that won't cause him to feel threatened and defensive in front of his class. If you attack him in public, you may lose the opportunity to convince him in private, and you're certainly not going to convert him by embarrassing and humiliating him in front of his students. So, I think that whether you voice your disagreement with someone depends on what it is that you wish to accomplish.

How many times have you convinced someone by a confrontational argument? Probably never. There can be no "moral duty" always to pronounce judgment against someone you disagree with, regardless of the consequences. You have to ask yourself, what is it that I can reasonably expect to accomplish?

I play poker with some people on a weekly basis, and one of the players is a friendly guy, who has invited me to his apartment occasionally to talk with him and his wife, both of whom are Catholic, and I gather pretty devout, as they attend mass regularly. They sent both their sons to Catholic Schools, and the man told me that at one point he was interested in becoming a Christian Brother. (Btw, we both agree that the Christian Brothers are bad news.) But I have never tried to argue religion with him. He is my age -- 67 -- and, if I know anything, I know I'm not going to convince someone that age and with that kind of history to change his mind on his religious convictions, especially as it would put him in conflict with his wife, who is unlikely to change her views, even if he changes his. I might, however, alienate him enough to strain our relationship and make mutual interaction difficult and unpleasant.

I am reminded of Rand's caveat on trying to convert your parents. Don't do it. You won't succeed anyway and you'll probably wind up ruining whatever relationship you already have. That doesn't mean that you have to lie to them or pretend to agree with their views, but it does mean that you are probably better off not trying to convert them to your way of thinking. I believe this same principle can apply to other social relationships as well. You have to ask yourself, realistically what can I expect to accomplish by arguing with this person. If you are going to interact with him or her on a personal level, you may do more harm than good, although you can certainly express your views, and without pressing the issue, a polite statement of your differences may be warranted.

Just something to think about. I've always taken Rand's "Judge and be prepared to be judged" dictum as applying to one's private evaluations, not as an imperative to verbally denounce everyone you disagree with.

- Bill

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Post 8

Thursday, July 26, 2007 - 6:47pmSanction this postReply
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I basically agree with you Teresa. While tact is important concerning those one wishes to keep as friends, it can never replace judgment in a relationship. I am far more terrified of being lumped in with the crowd because my 'tact' has disallowed a proper response than I am of losing a friend for stating plainly and clearly the fault and error one espouses. That said, there is no better way of winning the real esteem of a true friend than by allowing them to state their own case and immediately realize the error within.

This is not about my responsibility to correct anyone. It is insignificant to me that a man feels he is right when he claims that all men should be granted some form of free ride, that they be allowed to live the 'second-hand life'. However, it is critical to me that he know I am against this idea and that I he cannot count of me for support on those grounds.

It is not about being a social asshole, rather it is about being true to ones own compass. When CNN ran its YouTube debate my wife asked me who I would vote for if I had to pick one of the people on the stage. To her shock I chose Dennis Kucinich. 'Why would you pick him, he has absolutely nothing in common with your ideals.' To which I replied, 'that is true, but at least he's not a fake.'
(Edited by Steve
on 7/26, 7:19pm)


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