RoR: Forum

I think the poems of Kay Dover and Daniel O'Connor are pretty darn good, if rather brief. Kay's poetry especially seems poignant, sensuous, and uncomfortably intimate -- which I like.

But, generally speaking, shouldn't Objectivist-style poetry be rather different from this? Shouldn't it be modeled, maybe, on Enlightenment era poetry (prior to Wordsworth and Cooleridge)? Poetry which is unstructured, loose, "free-form" and "stream-of-consciousness" is far too common (and thus tired) nowadays, and rather weak, in my judgment. Altho' I don't know all that much about the subject, I would suggest that the ~best~ poetry almost always has rhyme, rhythm, and assonance/alliteration -- kind of like song.

Post 1

Monday, December 16, 2002 - 12:29pm

Thank you for your comments, Andre! :) It's good to hear my poems are being enjoyed.

Here's my thinking on this issue:

I think "Objectivist-style" poetry can take any form, though I certainly agree that totally unstructured and stream-of-consciousness poetry fall short of meeting the standards to qualify as art according to Objectivist aesthetics. (I think being "Objectivist" poetry has more to do with the themes and the sense of life conveyed.)

I have also found that much of the poetry that may seem to be unstructured does, in fact, have an intentional and meaningful form, if not a traditional one. The poet either invents the form before he writes, choosing rhymes and line breaks to fit the mood, message or speed he wants in the poem- or he invents the form as he goes along, but as far as I can tell it's still pretty rare (at least in poetry that gets any publication or acclaim) that the author is not paying attention to form whatsoever.

"Free verse" does not necessarily mean the absence of rhyme or assonance/alliteration, though it usually means the absence of a consistent meter. I see it as more about breaking out of traditional constraints and creating highly individualistic art. For me, consciously and purposefully writing free verse can be far more demanding creatively than working into an already established form, or modeling after another poet. It also tends to come out feeling more completely mine, and this makes me take even more pride and satisfaction from it.

Perhaps you can suggest some Enlightenment era poetry to include in the poetry section?

Post 2

Wednesday, December 18, 2002 - 11:19am

Hi Kay!

Your commentary seems very well informed and thought out, and I don't really dispute any of it. However, it's probably important to realize that ever since Homer, or before, popular poetry has tended to have pretty rhymes -- which are so pleasant (and even considerate) to the ear; and a kind of rollicking beat -- which is rather viscerally enjoyable. And if you like the poem, these two qualities make the poetry much easier to memorize. I think it's also worth noting that ever since "free verse" became so popular in the late 1800s or so -- it's become impossible to make a living as a poet.

Post 3

Thursday, December 19, 2002 - 3:43pm

Hi Andre!

I certainly agree with your point about rhymes and meter. You didn't happen to check out "Holding You", did you? :)

Your point about making a living as a poet... it's also important to note that, even in the Renaissance, poetry was very rarely a primary occupation, and when it did bring in money, it was only from insanely wealthy patrons who gave money to poets mainly because it made them (the patrons) look good. Today, contributing money to a poet would not add to a person's reputation, and might in fact, just be seen as an unwise investment.

It may be true that it's become even more difficult to make a living through poetry in the 20th-21st century, but I hardly think that's the fault of free verse. It's due to many factors, the most influential of which, it seems to me, being
(1) the absence of patrons as I mentioned above, and
(2) that there is now a much less defined education gap between classes, while it used to be that only the wealthy were educated enough to attempt poetry- so where it used to be a kind of exclusive club, today there is much more competition.

Of course, you don't need to be extremely educated to write "stream of consciousness"- but that brings me back to my point above that free verse is not synonymous with stream of consciousness writing.

This is a very interesting discussion!
Thanks again.

Post 4

Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 6:06pm