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Post 0

Saturday, April 2, 2005 - 11:59amSanction this postReply
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To hear the song: http://spaceplayer.tripod.com/id6.html

I posted this in response to the recent thread on repentance, and regret in general. We all make mistakes, some innocent, some not innocent. Some are hurtful, to others as well as one's self. Some people commit themselves to a private hell for their mistakes, but I think that a man can work his way out of hell if he chooses to.
The myth of Orpheus is one of the saddest things I've ever heard. But why couldn't he continue his life? Why couldn't he find the strength in himself to live? Why was he torn apart with regret? Was his sense of self so tied to Eurydice that he could no longer sing songs that made the animals and trees bow to him?
I posted this song for anyone who's ever made a tough decision, and looked back too soon, and had to face a world of regret. Choices like ending a friendship, ending a relationship, ending the life of a loved one, and regretted it.
Barbara Branden relates in THE PASSION OF AYN RAND Frank O'Conner's desire to paint a picture of Icarus not only flying towards the sun, but passing through it. She remarked that his technique did not match his ambition. Those who want to move past regret may feel like they have been dismembered, and may not know how to regenerate. But if we are not omniscient, we don't know what the future holds. So there's hope that we may find a way to remember Orpheus. And then maybe we'll find a way to pass through the Sun.
(Edited by Joe Maurone
on 4/02, 12:02pm)


Post 1

Saturday, April 2, 2005 - 1:04pmSanction this postReply
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Joe,
I like this gentle poem, particularly this part:

".....
I tried to write the script,
but the pen, it slipped
and the pages flipped,
............
How can we plan tomorrow,
until we live today?"

But I am not clear what do you mean in the end: "...if we live by chance, or by design...". I think life needs to have both.  




Post 2

Saturday, April 2, 2005 - 1:45pmSanction this postReply
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Thank you, Hong. As far as what I meant by the last line, it's problematic for me, also.

The line had a strange origin. I originally wrote the music back in 2000, with no words. The original ending had a triumphant fade out, and the line "popped" into my head, they seemed to suggest themselves. At the time, I was trying to write something "happy."
The song fell by the wayside for a couple years, and was resurrected during a really difficult time. I wrote the rest of the lyrics, and they led into the line. It was ironic, because my original intent years earlier.
I struggled with the word before "if", debating which word to use "but," "if," or just "we live by chance or by design." It was a small word, but one that could change the meaning of the whole song. Rand terrorized me with such considerations, ;) and I don't know if I achieved what I wanted to say. But I chose "if" because it suggests that if a person chooses either exclusively, omniscience is still not achieved. I say "if" because the song is directed at those who choose one or the other. It's also a jab at the irony of my original intent and how the song turned out, which mirrored how I lived life at the time, by design, and my inability to deal with people who didn't fit that design.

Post 3

Monday, April 4, 2005 - 5:08amSanction this postReply
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I have been away from solohq for a while and got an email noticfication of this posting and was glad I took a moment to check it out. i enjoyed reading this. the passion was there. I agree that the last line or two could use a little tweaky to really show that hope. If you are open to suggestions then perhaps for the last line you could try something along the lines of
"But who knows what we might find,
when we live by chance, or by design.."
again a simple word 'when' could slightly bring the meaning closer. Regardless great work. Have a nice day!

Post 4

Monday, April 4, 2005 - 5:37amSanction this postReply
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Hi, Jeff, and welcome back.
I think I played around with the word "when", but found it hard to sing "when" and "we" together. But you're right; I think it works better.

Post 5

Monday, April 4, 2005 - 7:21pmSanction this postReply
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Joe,

Thank you for having the courage to share this.  Please feel free to post more, if you have it.  Good poetry is hard to find.

I read this when it was originally posted but wanted to come back to it before commenting.  I like Hong's characterization of it as "gentle."  The line that struck me most was

I tried to rearrange my instincts
If only we were quiet enough within ourselves to sometimes listen - instead of trying to forcefully wrest every last ounce of control from nature and chance.   How much pain and torment could we then save ourselves! It's vitally important to act on what you know of yourself to forge a successfull and happy life; but it's no less important to know something of yourself, or else how can you then have any knowledge to act on?

Thanks for this, Joe.

Jason


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Post 6

Tuesday, April 5, 2005 - 3:12pmSanction this postReply
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Joe,

I have wanted to comment on this for a while. I read it. Then I read it again. Then again...

I can't get past this line for letting myself go:
This song I wrote,
not what I meant to say.
Writing a song about what you do not mean to say? Hmmmmmm... That is sort of like starting a lecture crowd scene in a movie with somebody yawning real loud in voice over (btw - I personally did that mistake in directing dubbing once - the director had a fit!).

If you wanted to write a song about repentance and regret, a good starting place would be:

I fucked up. It hurts.

Then start changing it around and dressing it up with rhymes and images and stuff. A good writer is ruthless with himself in making these kinds of feelings clear and easy to understand to his audience. Even those with an Objectivist slant.

(A lot of rock is ambiguous on purpose - this reflects how minds process drugs and alcohol and getting satisfaction NOW. Long term fans of these works do too. Some of it is really quite good, but I find most "artsy" without much meaning. I prefer intelligible songs. They last longer.)

You show talent. I think you got what it takes to do really good song writing. I am reluctant to go over technical aspects on a public forum, as song appreciation is usually pretty subjective. A lot of flash-in-the-pan works get much more attention than they deserve - and fans get pissed at constructive criticism. But history ends up brushing them off.

So I would like to recommend the works of Sheila Davis (especially The Craft of Lyric Writing). They will give you much food for thought. She has written several hits, so this is by someone who has done it.

I like the way you worry over a word until you think it is right. I do that - and that is the only way I have found to get to the "between-the-lines" meaning of words and let them whisper loudly to the subconscious. (Some call this a hook, but it is so much more than that...)

Do more. You are one who can.

Michael

Post 7

Tuesday, April 5, 2005 - 3:42pmSanction this postReply
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Joe thanks for sharing this. I was tempted to analyse it, as thats what I like to do :) but then just let it be. I enjoyed the depth of feeling, and the gentle self awareness. Very good! Please share more.


regards
John



Post 8

Tuesday, April 5, 2005 - 4:03pmSanction this postReply
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Thank you, Michael, and John, for the encouragement and constructive criticism.

Sheila Davis: Read her. Loved it. Accentuate the positive!

"If you wanted to write a song about repentance and regret, a good starting place would be:

I fucked up. It hurts."

It's one way, for sure. But that wouldn't be me. :) And the line should be considered in context of the last line about chance or design.

I had the music down first, and the lyrics had to fit the structure already down. The music, for me anyway, usually suggests lyrical ideas, and I flow with them. In this case, I was probably trying to be too poetic in the beginning, a bit abstract, analytical... which is my way...in relationships, as well. So the song went that way for a reason. Not only that, but the original song years earlier was to be a happy song, but you know what they say about best laid plans...Halfway through writing the lyrics, I said, "this is bullshit...just say it." Plus, the line "this song I wrote" was not just the song, but the relationship...it's not how the relationship was supposed to go...so the lyrics reflect my stoicism breaking down...

Every word is there for a reason...a lot of it is inside references, which may not make sense to the listener, so I can understand that.
(Edited by Joe Maurone
on 4/05, 4:06pm)

(Edited by Joe Maurone
on 4/05, 4:30pm)


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