Academic Subject

What a false question! The most important academic subject one can study, besides philosophy, is whatever subject one finds to be the most fascinating and rewarding. In other words, study what you love studying!

Pianoman

BTW Why wasn't music or any of the other arts on there?

Post 1

Friday, August 1, 2003 - 11:47pm

>> BTW Why wasn't music or any of the other arts on there?

The choice of subjects reflects the personal tastes and biases of the question writer (me).

I must admit that the arts didn't even occur to me when thinking of possible subjects. Perhaps this is because I see them as things to be just enjoyed, rather than studied academically. Years of being forced to read books slowly and anaylse them to death for English Literature may have influenced me here!

But also, I don't see academic knowledge of the arts as 'important' in the sense of adding to one's integrated world-view in the same way that I see history or economics etc.

Post 2

Friday, August 1, 2003 - 11:58pm

PS

1) Oops - Analyse, not anaylse!

2) Is it really a false question? I am starting from the premise that there are certain things that a well-rounded individual *has* to know in order to properly understand the world around them. That's different to just studying whatever interests you (admirable as that is as well).

Like Rand, for me that subject is history. Even though I am halfway through a history degree I am still constantly frustrated by my lack of historical knowledge, especially ancient history.

Post 3

Saturday, August 2, 2003 - 10:12am

My appologies about the false question bit. The wording of it threw me off as I did not understand that you were referring (sp?) to subjects as influencing one's view of the whole world. In that context, I would have to agree with you, but the question as it was stated seemed to imply that you were speaking of personal importance(in which case, music is the most crucially important to me).I understand the importance to history, but to my own interests in creating and discovering music,I believe that history (even as it applies to music) is secondary, whereas for you it would be primary. In terms of importance of personal values, that question would be misleading in the sense that there are many other subjects a person may find it important to study or a person might not find academic study to be important, and that the simple answer to the question in this specific context is simply, "Whatever you find it important to study."

Pianoman

"Do not be suprised if I am educated beyond my intelligence!" -Pianoman

Post 4

Saturday, August 2, 2003 - 10:48pm

Here's a question: while knowledge is valuable, is it not more important to possess skills with which one can earn a living? Even if literature is your passion, possessing a doctorate in English literature will do you no good if all you can do with it is flip burgers at McDonalds. Maybe it's better to learn a trade first, and then pursue one's education on one's own time.

Post 5

Saturday, August 2, 2003 - 11:42pm

I agree totally, Matthew.

However, this only covers the 'vocational' aspect of education. I think of equal or even greater value is to master a subject such as history (there I go again) or science, one that helps you to put philosophy into perspective, rather than just get a job. For instance, after a law or medicine degree, is one really much the wiser about the world about us?

Post 6

Sunday, August 3, 2003 - 7:40am

No, a person probably doesn't gain much wisdom from a law degree or a medicine degree, though they might learn about themselves in the process. But I suspect that Maslow had taken a step in the right direction with his theories on the hierarchy of values: survival first, then self-actualization.

Post 7

Monday, August 4, 2003 - 11:12pm

Jonathan has said: �I must admit that the arts didn't even occur to me when thinking of possible subjects. Perhaps this is because I see them as things to be just enjoyed, rather than studied academically. Years of being forced to read books slowly and anaylse them to death for English Literature may have influenced me here!�

�I don't see academic knowledge of the arts as 'important' in the sense of adding to one's integrated world-view in the same way that I see history or economics etc.�

I think Jonathan is remiss in not even including the study of the arts in the questionnaire. But not only that but art is the only field of human endeavor that systematically integrates emotions, senses, and thought and a holistic view of humanity and its place in the universe. Perhaps Jonathan is so blinded by the power of art that he accepts it like a given as we might accept the sun. But art is a human-made phenomenon and it has a profound influence on every single human being that has ever lived; art is the catalyst for our dreams and visions.

Of course, something like math, is universal. Everyone needs that to get through practical matters of survival knowing something about it is crucial. But art works on another level �art is the technology of the soul.� Not having studied some form of art or art appreciation is worse than abandoning the furthest reaches of your soul to the arithmetic skills of a six year-old. Studying some form of art, that you are interested in, can open up your understanding of what matters most; your soul.

Post 8

Tuesday, August 5, 2003 - 3:47pm

It's to bad politics gets such low regard,
it's the politics that's resulted in millions of
dead around the world.

It's to bad Engineering gets such low regard
it's Engineering that keeps a person grounded in
reality.

philosophy on the other hand over the last 500 years or so, is fairly full of brain dead idiots that have never work a day in their life. and just sit around musing about a reality they don't take part in.

Post 9

Tuesday, August 5, 2003 - 4:08pm

>> philosophy on the other hand over the last 500 years or so, is fairly full of brain dead idiots that have never work a day in their life. and just sit around musing about a reality they don't take part in.

But Greg, that's a criticism of philosoph*ers*, not philosoph*y*. The fact that many philosophers have lost the plot is *not* a logical argument for saying that philosophy is unimportant.

Post 10

Tuesday, August 5, 2003 - 9:36pm

But Jonathan, an out of touch philosopher's philosophy is no more legitimate than an out of touch Dr.'s surgery. It does detriment to society as a whole.

The Idea that the question puts philosophy on top of all other work as single most important and then asks for one more field of study is suspect to me.

Sorry but my wording was not to criticize philosophers as much as to criticize much philosophy that is see as @^#$(@!! and should not be taught as legitimate philosophies to kids getting their first adult rights to like have a beer or whatever. "to much teaching kids there's no right or wrong and reality is what you make it". Well humpty dumpty! that's great but not if creating your reality is at the expense of others and that's what's wrong with America. Won't go there now. But, somebody mentioned a law degree
I'd say with what the lawyers are doing to this country A law degree would be invaluable in the future just to keep your butt out of a sling or your neck out of a noose.

Somebody had a great quote about "specialization is for insects" its a great quote, but then I could get all philosophical and what not and pontificate that those specialized insects may bee, pardon the pun, here long after the human race is gone. So much for wasting my time and brain cells on philosophy, better get back to work got bills to pay.

Post 11

Wednesday, August 6, 2003 - 10:03am

On this site, I think it can be taken as a given that when we refer to studying philosophy, we mean Objectivist philosophy, which is true, moral, and practical. This philosophy teaches one how one can live life to the fullest by using one's mind to make the effort to understand reality and to be able to take that knowledge and apply it in a context that applies to your own life. Most everyone on this forum uses philosophy to live life. We don't view philosophy as a meaningless mind-game that other philosophers of other philosophies do. I would suggest checking out www.importanceofphilosophy.com

Pianoman

Post 12

Friday, August 8, 2003 - 1:52pm

Interesting. At first I didn't notice the ommision of art and music, subjects I love and value. I think it was becuase of the phrase "academic study". Do we need an academic study of the arts? Am I missing something in Mozart and Chopin that such a study could provide? Did I not see something in the Titian or Ingre last week when I visited London's National Gallery?

(Of course, I'm trying to be provocative.)
;) Rick

Post 13

Saturday, August 9, 2003 - 4:18pm

Hey Rick, all right, I am all for being provocative!!!

The arts are where human spirituality resides. Through academic study you break down the components of great art works. In a way it is like studying your personal soul, breaking it down into facets, nuances, and connections that you were only vaguely aware of previously. Having greater awareness of art can expand your vision of your possibilities, it is not a passive thing. I may be wrong in the context in which you ask: �Am I missing something in Mozart and Chopin that such a study could provide?� But it seems to me that you are only experiencing art in terms of its emotive value�that further inquiry is not wanted, not possible, or irrelevant. Innovation, methodology, historical import, philosophical message, means of integration, nuance of communication, passion, content�the list can go on but a great art work is the frozen form of all that stuff waiting for the audience to unlock its wonder. The more you understand how an art work works the more you have insight into the universality of humanity. And what area in your life would this not be relevant?

The inability to understand art through study leaves many people very insecure about anything to do with art�I have met more people than I would like to that stubbornly blank out and throw up massive concrete walls�just impossible to breach. Aside from its Catholicism one of the most expressive cultures on the planet is the Italian. Almost to a child they freely express their emotions and joy at seeing creativity. They have taken art history classes in, I believe, every year of their teenage education. The French culture also stresses the importance of aesthetics. It is for this reason that those two cultures are the leaders in style, design and an incredible sense of pride and joy in LIVING.

Post 14

Monday, August 11, 2003 - 5:08am

I certainly like the spirit and enthusiasm of your explanation, Michael. Also, I agree one can gain tremendously from becoming more conscious of what one may be only vaguely aware - by appropriate study. I think I hear you saying that the degree and depth of one's response is increased by formal (or even informal) study. I think so.

At first, when I wrote my previous post, I was recalling my introduction to music course in college. I remember getting very little from what seemed to be little more than a superficial classification of each movement into ABA, ABACA, etc. However, reading your list of dimensions - "innovation, methodology, historical import, philosophical message, means of integration, nuance of communication, passion, content" - I realized that I gave myself the real education I needed on my own over the years. I've read music history, listen to various interpretation and commentary, and even attempted to perform some of my favorite pieces on the piano.

My sole college art course was not much better. My college course in Ancient Greece by a Classics professor did focus on the circumstances surrounding Homer and the great dramatists from political events to findings from archeological excavations. But imagine reading Homer, Sophocles and Euripides without ever discussing the theme of the works or philosophy of life of the Greeks.

Of course, I could have treasured and profited from an academic study as "it might be and ought to be". And, of course, I'm still learning and growing ... which reminds me, you have a conference coming up soon in New York. It sounds promising.

Post 15

Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 3:16am

Michael, I've just been listening again to Handel's 'Israel in Egypt', and I'm starting to slowly come round to the point of view that you may just have a point about the importance of understanding the arts...

So what, specifically, would be *your* single most important academic subject to study, in addition to philosophy?

Post 16

Saturday, August 23, 2003 - 11:43am