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Post 0

Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 1:40amSanction this postReply
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Well, I suggested this question, but unfortunately I don't have an answer!! But I'm pretty damn sure it isn't Australia/New Zealand, judging from actually living in NZ.

And by the way, with apologies to Barry & Betty Kayton and anyone else in Africa, I didn't think that continent was worth including for this question!

I am still mulling over Antarctica though...

Post 1

Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 1:45amSanction this postReply
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Hey, now I come to think of it, isn't part of Antarctica owned by NZ? You'd probably need resource consent to build an igloo!!

Post 2

Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 12:16pmSanction this postReply
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I object to lumping Canada with the US. As one who fled Socialism in Canada I can attest that there is no comparison. As an example, the Toronto Globe and Mail ran a recent survey on who the readers thought should own and operate the electric utilities ... the private sector, the public sector, or a mixture. Only 10% thought the private sector should own them.

I don't know about Australia/New Zealand but from where I stand it's the good ole US of A.

Post 3

Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 1:27pmSanction this postReply
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I object to lumping Canada with the US. As one who fled Socialism in Canada I can attest that there is no comparison. As an example, the Toronto Globe and Mail ran a recent survey on who the readers thought should own and operate the electric utilities ... the private sector, the public sector, or a mixture. Only 10% thought the private sector should own them.

I don't know about Australia/New Zealand but from where I stand it's the good ole US of A.

Post 4

Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 4:11amSanction this postReply
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Well Jonathon, if you're talking Africa as a whole, then I'd have to agree with you! :)

Post 5

Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 9:48amSanction this postReply
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Oops! I didn't see Antartica! LOL!

Post 6

Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 7:17pmSanction this postReply
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Can anyone explain why they might consider Asia, the former USSR or Australia/New Zealand to be the most politically free region in the world today?!

Or are these votes just the work of passing trolls??

Post 7

Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 9:25pmSanction this postReply
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The Libertarian think-tank CATO Institute did a detailed study in 1999, assessing the freedom of each place according to how close it came to laissez-faire capitalism.

The top 6 most free places were:

1 Hong Kong
2 Singapore
3 NEW ZEALAND !
4 United Kingdom
5 United States
6 AUSTRALIA

Read the CATO report (pdf format) here:

http://www.cato.org/economicfreedom/2001/efw01-ch1&es.pdf

Hong Kong is now part of China, and Singapore is more like a city-state than an independent region.

Believe it or not, the correct answer to the poll qustion is New Zealand/Australia. New Zealand and Australia are currently are the most politically free regions in the world as determined by CATO studies.

Of course, that doesn't mean that NZ/Australia are really very free. It just means the rest of the world is even worse!

Post 8

Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 10:09amSanction this postReply
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If Cato put Hong Kong and Singapore first, then it must have only considered practical business and economic conditions in the short term, outside of the context of the local political system and dominant philosophy. (Hong Kong was already flying the Red Chinese flag in 1999.)

Its answer therefore says nothing about the "gates test" which I assume is closer to what the poll question intended: if you open all the gates, where will people move to start new lives? The US still passes that one, though perhaps not by as large a margin as previously.

Bill Nevin
Houston, Texas

Post 9

Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 12:03pmSanction this postReply
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I had always assumed that the US, UK, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand were clustered together on the freedom scale. But I admit that I don't fully know what life is like in many of those countries. Is there any major difference between them?

I know the Canadan gov't controls the health care system. However, when I used to visit Montreal and Quebec City in the 70s, I used to see how much better the housing was compared to my home town: New York City. We had considerable regulations that destoryed the housing stock or priced it out of reach. If I had to add it up, it wasn't clear that there was a big difference.

How about you guys down under? Do you notice any major difference between the English-speaking countries?

Post 10

Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 5:11pmSanction this postReply
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Canada has much higher income and sales taxes than the US at both the national and provincial level. This is now particularly true for Quebec.

Britain has come up markedly on the business and standard of living side side of the scale since the Thatcher reforms, but has slid on the crime and criminal justice side. Basic rights like protection against self-incrimination and double jeopardy have been curtailed, and there is now a movement to eliminate the right to a jury trial for criminal defendants accused of a large category of offenses, including some felonies. Gun control is now very strict with stiff punishments. Self-defense has been de facto banned as a valid defense in court. These two have led to a violent crime wave. So if you are accosted by a mugger or rapist, your best bet is to give him what he wants and hope he doesn't kill you afterwards. Video from the ubiquitous public cameras has been used to prosecute mugging victims for assault after they fought back.

Australia has very strict gun control now too, and its violent crime rate has also been rising rapidly since that was enacted.

Ireland, long the poor relation of the English speaking world, has cut its taxes to record low levels and is therefore enjoying a boom with record low unemployment rates and a rapidly rising standard of living. This has led to calls from France and other ailing over-taxed countries for a more uniform tax rate to be imposed by each EU member state. (The idea of lowering their own levels to match the Irish success hasn't occured to them. They just want Ireland to commit economic suicide by raising its tax rates.)

In the US, by contrast, the economy is still in a slump compared to the 1990's. But our current unemployment rate of about 6% would be considered a sign of miraculous economic health in most EU countries. The border states of California, Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas, as well as southern Florida, are gradually becoming bilingual societies due to the last 40 years of Latin American immigration. This constitutes proof of our long-term job-creation potential and continuing ability to pass the "gates test".

With longer jail terms, less parole, 80 million gun owners, and more states passing "shall issue" laws (which require the police to issue a license to carry a concealed handgun to each applicant who meets certain standards,) our crime rate has been plunging for more than the last decade.

Trial by jury and the right to avoid self-incrimination are still safe here with the possible new exception of the Patriot Act provisions for alleged terrorist cases. Protection against double jeopardy is in place for most defendants who are not police officers, but is slowly being eroded by the Federal government's usurpation of the criminal law.

Bill

Post 11

Friday, August 22, 2003 - 11:03amSanction this postReply
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Bill, I think your description of the UK fits my impression from what I’ve read and from my visits over the last two decades. In regards to England’s crime, I’ve read Theodore Dalrymple’s articles on www.city-journal.org. The "criminal as victim" mentality seems prevalent there - similar to the intellectual fashion prevalent during the 60s here in the US. The last politician that I remember, who fully subscribed to that outlook was New York’s Mayor David Dinkins. As crime soared, I remember him repeating the mantra that we can’t solve the crime problem until we addressed the cause: poverty. That even motivated my fellow New Yorkers to vote for a Republican mayor: Rudolf Giuliani.

It’s also a welcomed surprise to see Ireland take such initiative with respect to tax cuts. I have long held that many of our fellow English speaking nations, who have access to our common cultural traditions and the significant literature of liberty in English, can be the next to take a leap in the direction of liberty. After all, we were the little backwatered British colony when we out did the mother country.

So I’m wonder about prospects in ... New Zealand. How the fight going there, people?

Post 12

Saturday, August 23, 2003 - 1:35amSanction this postReply
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Canada actually ranked a distant 13th on the Cato Study of Economic freedom, so it probably doesn't make sense to lump Canada with the United States. Canada's health-care system is highly socialized, and there is generally a much higher level of regulation in Canada than in the States.

The United States has long since ceased to be anything near a laissez-faire economy. Measuring government expenditure as a percentage of GDP does not give an accurate measure of economic freedom, because government spending has also been included in the GDP figure. When you add up all forms of taxation in the States, indirect, local and state, as well as Federal, you find that government now expropriates more than 55% of all private wealth.

Worse, there is a high level of social conservatism in the States. The U.S wages an extremely aggressive war on drugs, which has resulted in one of the highest prison populations in the world. Laws surrounding sex, drugs and euthanasia are very repressive relative to the more liberal Europe. The recent 'Patriot Act' gives the U.S government the right to lock up 'Suspected Terrorists' indefinitely, without trial.

Anyone in business in the States is at constant risk of being sued... 95% of all lawsuits are in the States, and frivolous lawsuits are rife. Lottery sized handouts are awarded without rhyme or reason.

Sorry, but I would hardly call the U.S/Canada a bastion of freedom.

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