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Post 20

Sunday, February 25, 2007 - 7:35pmSanction this postReply
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Isn't "Mister Hank E." the Christmas Pooh?



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Post 21

Sunday, February 25, 2007 - 11:30pmSanction this postReply
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Luke, I said beneficial.  First, for the reason given above that this is a way to promote Objectivism to a group who might find it beneficial.  I've been thinking for awhile about working hard to reach out to the more general atheist movement.  We have a lot to offer.  The potential "downside" is that we'll offend religious people.  Frankly, that doesn't bother me the slightest bit.

As for links going the other way, I'll dissent from the majority.  I am anti-theist, not just atheist.  I don't just not believe in god, I think the whole idea is preposterous and dangerous.  I find no reason at all not to link to atheist organizations, as long as it's clear that it's the atheism that we are in agreement with, not any other random beliefs they happen to have.  Yes it will offend people.  Some people find it incredibly offensive to criticize religion in any form.  But we are living in the middle of a world war with its roots in religion.  We can't expect Christians to wage the intellectual war because they can only disagree over what kind of faith and supernatural beliefs to support, not whether the whole approach is flawed.

There are enough wishy-washy religious people in America that nobody wants to offend them by categorizing them with the fundamentalists.  It prevents legitimate arguments against the horrors of religion because we all happen to know some nice people who also believe in god.  Instead, we have to talk about "moderates" and "radicals", as if the former camp was perfectly legitimate and only the latter group has problems.

I do agree with Robert Bidinotto that "for most people, 'atheist means 'believing in NOTHING'".  I'm not convinced that's why they find it repugnant.  From my experience, they hate atheists because those people don't pretend that their beliefs are legitimate, and are willing to state it to the world (even by just describing themselves as an atheist).  In fact, even my experience among non-believers in god (what should properly be atheists), I find they also find atheism repugnant.  They think it's rude and mean-spirited to tell people that their precious beliefs are wrong, and their basic approach to these ideas is irrational.  If any of this is true, it means the only way we can avoid having the negative connotations of atheism is by constantly telling religious people that their beliefs are legitimate and good, and avoiding confrontations.  No thanks.

So if an atheist organization has something of value, linking to it or even associating with it would be options well worth considering.  If that means religious people will be offended, let them be.  If it means non-believers who are afraid of confrontation will be offended, I'll have to let them be offended.  I don't know of any way of being a radical for Objectivism without challenging the beliefs of others.


Post 22

Sunday, February 25, 2007 - 11:02pmSanction this postReply
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yes,sir anyone interested in self improvement would listen with an open mind one would think. 

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