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Post 20

Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 6:21pmSanction this postReply
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To those of you who answered yes: which parts of the book had that effect on you?

Post 21

Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 6:47pmSanction this postReply
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Hell's Kitchen.

Howard's first meeting with Cameron.

Howard waiting for the phone to ring, and the phone dying from the bill being unpaid.

Howard going to work in the quarry. 

Keatings betrayal of Roark with Cortland Homes. He should have kicked Keating's ass, then blow the building up. 


Post 22

Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 7:25pmSanction this postReply
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When Roark turns down the offer to built the Manhattan Bank building.

When Roark goes to Mallory's and finds him broken.

When Dominique marries Keating.

When Dominique and Keating talk of values.

When Dominique and Keating meet Wynand for lunch.

When Dominique marries Wynand.

When the tale of Wynand's past is told.

When Roark and Dominique have their 'scene'.

When Roark and Dominique conspire to destroy Cortlandt.

When Roark destroys Cortlandt and Dominique stands to watch.

When Dominique rides the lift and Roark stands atop his creation as a hero.

Those are the times I can think of.

Post 23

Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 8:17pmSanction this postReply
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I know that I did cry, especially at the end. But the Fountainhead primarily made me burst out laughing, often in public. I was breathless reading Dominique's article saying that they shouldn't allow the Enright building to be built among the structures that would surround it. I wept more often in Atlas Shrugged - Cheryl's tragic and The Wet Nurse's heroic deaths come directly to mind.

Ted

Post 24

Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 11:06pmSanction this postReply
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Anthem would much more immediately speak to my emotions, and I remember weeping or being on the edge of tears throughout the whole novel, which I read on I think three occasions, barren nights when I needed some recharging, finishing in two hours or more, feeling such an ache, my good friends...

When International says "Rather we would die." Chapter eleven. lots of others that I won't remember now.

I know the topic is The Fountainhead. Of course it did the same thing, but...well readers will know why it might not have the same powderkeg impact. Parts though, like the beginning of the "Howard Roark" section, and the conversations with Cameron, and some others I'm sure I can't remember now, would surely do me in.

Michael

Post 25

Wednesday, August 1, 2007 - 3:37amSanction this postReply
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I know that I did cry, especially at the end. But the Fountainhead primarily made me burst out laughing,

Tooth brush brush brush tooth....

Cracked me up. 


Post 26

Wednesday, August 1, 2007 - 6:11amSanction this postReply
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Howard, I don't have your sense of mercy. I've read that editorial. Don't comment on this. Don't say anything about self-sacrifice or I'll break and... and I'm not quite as strong as that sheriff is probably thinking. I didn't do it for you. I've made it worse for you—I've added scandal to everything else they'll throw at you. But, Howard, now we stand together—against all of them. You'll be a convict and I'll be an adulteress. Howard, do you remember that I was afraid to share you with lunch wagons and strangers' windows? Now I'm not afraid to have this past night smeared all over their newspapers. My darling, do you see why I'm happy and why I'm free?" He said:
"I'll never remind you afterward that you're crying, Dominique."




Post 27

Wednesday, August 1, 2007 - 9:58amSanction this postReply
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Thank you, Glenn.

Talk about reacting to a value.


Erica


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Post 28

Thursday, August 2, 2007 - 1:29amSanction this postReply
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But the Fountainhead primarily made me burst out laughing ...
 
That was my general reaction to it, too. But I had already seen the movie, so I went through the book knowing the introduction, the main plot, and the ending. Perhaps this foreknowledge -- of how most everything in the novel eventually turns out -- prevented me from outright crying. Though I recall that my eyes watered a few times; those times were only during triumphant events, not tragic ones.

Ed


Post 29

Thursday, August 2, 2007 - 12:17pmSanction this postReply
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I drew the distinction before between weeping - tearing up a bit, and sobbing, which is wailing. I would be extremely surprised to see anyone wail or sob or cry in the sense of a baby while reading the book. Tearing up counts as crying for the meaning of this conversation, so welcome to the club, Ed.

Post 30

Thursday, August 2, 2007 - 3:07pmSanction this postReply
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Oh, thank you for that welcome, Ted!

: .-)

; -)

Ed

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Post 31

Thursday, August 2, 2007 - 11:45pmSanction this postReply
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Although I am utterly new around here, this topic intrigued me to no end! I was born on an airforce base to a dad who started teaching me karate at the tender age of 7. As a girl, I learned early on that showing emotion would condemn me as "weak" and, therefore "inferior" to my male counterparts. Many years, a college degree, a marriage, and two children later, I still don't cry that often. I definitely don't cry when I read -- even when I read the Fountainhead.

This is not to say that I never cry. What I have discovered about myself is that I save my "public" tears for the very rare circumstance in which a particular evaluative judgment is powerful enough to manifest my emotions physically. But I'm not a fan of spontaneous emotive reactions, so I tend to mull over my emotional reactions in a private setting.


Post 32

Friday, August 3, 2007 - 12:32amSanction this postReply
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Welcome, Virginia.

1) Whether you do or do not cry that in itself is not a moral judgement upon you.

2) Do you at least tear up - not sob - at joyful things, even if only in private?

3) Do you understand the points that we pro-tearing up people are making? Do you think that we are wrong or weak?

4) I have been mugged, had to beat up bullies and drug dealers. I don't particularly like violence, and when I have had to get violent, I did cry to the point sometimes of sobbing - usually after the fighting was done. It has never stopped me from defending myself. I could certainly kill someone if the need arose - but I would certainly sob once I could do so out of immediate danger. Unless I got battle hardened.

5) Do you feal your father did right by you? Do you resent it? Did he treat you as the son he wanted? Or do you think he did you a favor? Is he alive? Happy? Are you on good terms?

I wouldn't look at the issue with anger or guilt or too much concern. The important thing in the context of this thread is, does your inability to cry stem from a suppression of your emotions that makes you a less joyful person than you could be?

I am not at all a favor of counseling or of expecting all people to fit in the same mold. I'd just say that next time something happens where you might possibly think that you are holding back an emotion that you let it manifest itself if it will, without chastising yourself if it does or it doesn't. It's a much braver thing to be yourself than to deny yourself. But there's never any call to fake yourself by faking emotion or by faking a stiff upper lip.

This is not a quiz, but a suggested private thought exercise that you need not answer in public. Go enjoy yourself.

Ted Keer

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Post 33

Friday, August 3, 2007 - 1:19amSanction this postReply
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Ted, thank you for your post! Insightful is the word that came to my mind as I read it.

To respond to several of your points:

-- Although it is rare, I do cry in response to joyful things. I'm just very selective.

-- I unequivocally understand the pro-tear points. I believe that "to cry" or "not to cry" is a very individualistic trait. Some people cry as easily as I laugh. I don't find this offensive, weak, or in any way inferior as long as the tears are honest (therefore, not fabricated for sympathy).

-- "After violence" crying makes absolute sense to me. Violence is an extreme sense initiator -- physically and emotionally. The adrenaline crash afterwards is by itself enough to make one cry.

--Luckily, my father is alive and well, and we have a wonderful relationship. Almost all of my experiences with the martial arts have been positive and, to some extent, learning to keep my emotions to myself was a benefit as well. The benefit in keeping my emotions to myself is that I learned not to react with spontaneous emotion to every situation. Of course, this is extremely beneficial when defending oneself from a physical attack. Showing your attacker that you cannot emotionally handle the attack is, essentially, an invitation for the continuation of the attack. There has been a great deal of research done on this matter (refer to any work by FBI profiler Robert Ressler). For example, serial rapists look for vulnerability. Confidence and emotional strength often make them turn their attention elsewhere.

Granted, the negative aspect of keeping my emotions to myself from such a young age was that I was not able to differentiate between self-defense situations and everyday life until I was much older. I sort of lumped it all into one category, thereby protecting my emotions all of the time. It took years of self-examination for me to rectify this. Happily, I can report that I am well beyond repressing my emotions.


Post 34

Friday, August 3, 2007 - 2:36amSanction this postReply
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Great to hear. Had I wanted to take any sort of martial arts, my father would have supported it. We have a good relationship but he and I are big guys and have usually been able to avoid fights and to act when necessary. Others here may have heard this story, but as a child of about 8 I was being ganged up upon by bullies inciting my neighborhood. None of them could have taken me alone, but it was always a pile on. After my dad found out what happened, when I came in sobbing one day, he said we were going to march right back out and that I was to beat the first kid I caught into submission, and he would hold back all the rest. He said once that kid submitted, the bullying would stop. I chased down one of my close friends, and walloped him til we were both crying. He did give in. My father told me to let him go and shake hands. He explained to the other adults what had been going on. After that their was never a single instance of bullying among us, and we all remained good friends. When I went to highschool and met bullies from across town, I pushed back hard at the first sign of aggression - and never had any problems. Then when I got robbed a few times in the South Bronx, I actually chased down the thugs and dragged them buy the ear to retrieve my property. By that point I wasn't crying any more, but boy, was my heart pounding. Again, after two incidents, mugging the white guy (me) didn't seem like quite such a good idea.

So what makes you tear up in joy? Last thing I can think of off the top of my head was the movie Nell with Jodie Foster which I saw this spring - also news stories and certain songs. And finding out on the occasions when my sister's become pregnant.

Ted

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Post 35

Friday, August 3, 2007 - 8:46amSanction this postReply
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Your dad sounds as insightful as you :)

What makes me tear up in joy? 

I cried when both of my daughters were born. And, interestingly, I cried when I found out that I had made Phi Beta Kappa. To me, these joyful occasions were exceptional. 

Regarding my daughters: When I was 19, I was told by my physician that I could never have children. After my first daughter was born, I was told that her birth was a fluke and that I could never have another child. Having been so devastated by what the doctors told me initially, both times I gave birth were extra sweet.  

Regarding Phi Beta Kappa: I went back to school after my kids were in school themselves, and then it took me seven years to graduate (part-timer, graduated May, 2007). It was unbelievable to me how many people told me that it was okay if I wasn't the perfect student, that it was okay to get mediocre grades -- all because I was a mother. Mediocrity, when freely chosen, is never okay in my book. I knew I could excel, so I did. The pride in my achievement was tremendous.


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Post 36

Friday, August 3, 2007 - 10:52amSanction this postReply
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Welcome, Virginia!

Your posts were wonderful.

In particular,

Granted, the negative aspect of keeping my emotions to myself from such a young age was that I was not able to differentiate between self-defense situations and everyday life until I was much older. I sort of lumped it all into one category, thereby protecting my emotions all of the time. It took years of self-examination for me to rectify this. Happily, I can report that I am well beyond repressing my emotions.



This is huge...that you were able to figure this out for yourself,  I mean.
When I figure out what my deal is, I'll post it, too. I suspect the causes may be something similar, (without the benefit of the kick-ass martial arts expertise you acquired :-)

And this,

Mediocrity, when freely chosen, is never okay in my book. I knew I could excel, so I did. The pride in my achievement was tremendous.



Excellent. Well said.

Erica

By the way, I checked out your website and saw the photo of you with the awesome kick to the head of that guy....Damn!...(remind me not to get on your bad side)...   :-D


(Edited because I noticed that you just added that "awesome kick to the head picture" as your avatar. Yesss! Yeah, everybody...THAT's Virginia...you show 'em!)



(Edited by Erica Schulz on 8/03, 10:57am)


Post 37

Friday, August 3, 2007 - 1:09pmSanction this postReply
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Thank you for such a friendly welcome!

I thought you might get a "kick" out of knowing that the guy in the picture is my husband :)  Talk about trust . . . the kick wasn't posed, and I landed it about 1 cm from his nose.


Post 38

Friday, August 3, 2007 - 2:16pmSanction this postReply
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"Regarding my daughters: When I was 19, I was told by my physician that I could never have children. After my first daughter was born, I was told that her birth was a fluke and that I could never have another child. Having been so devastated by what the doctors told me initially, both times I gave birth were extra sweet."

My cousin had exactly the same story, she was told after a miscarriage that she needed a partial hysterectomy and would never have children. She then carried a healthy son to term, but was told to abort if she became pregnant again. She now has two very handsome little rugrats.

Ted

Post 39

Friday, August 3, 2007 - 4:33pmSanction this postReply
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What Erica said.

Damn!   :)


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