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Sunday, July 28 - 1:05amSanction this postReply
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Just a quibble.... there is no such thing as "absolute liberty of the 'state of nature'." Liberty is a condition that has to be achieved by instituting and maintaining some mechanism, like a government based upon individual rights, that creates an environment free of coercion. Liberty doesn't grow on any of those trees in nature.



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Post 1

Sunday, July 28 - 11:15amSanction this postReply
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Thanks for the input, Steve.

I agree with your criticism. It's a good point. My wording was wrong. I, at the time I wrote it, had wondered whether I should use the true term for what it is that you have in nature -- i.e., license (not liberty) -- but accidentally decided that "liberty" was acceptable if qualified by the contextually-counterfactual term "absolute." I made a judgment call. No one has any real liberty when everyone -- and perhaps even when anyone! -- has unchecked license to do whatever they please.

Ed

(Edited by Ed Thompson on 7/28, 5:41pm)




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Sunday, July 28 - 11:27amSanction this postReply
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It was just a quibble because it was clear what you meant, and what you understood.



Post 3

Sunday, July 28 - 5:40pmSanction this postReply
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Steve,

You know, the funny thing is that while both liberty and license have to do with whether your actions are coerced or not -- they are not even the same kind of a thing (i.e., the same thing measured in 2 different degrees, like on a scale). Instead, they are on different scales (as you alluded).

Ed




Post 4

Monday, July 29 - 6:57amSanction this postReply
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Ed:

Maybe 'orthogonal' fits what you mean by that:

Orthogonal: state may vary on one axis without impacting state on another axis.

In an XYZ space, we -can- change the value of either X or Y or Z without changing the value of the other two; the three axes are orthogonal.

Ideas/concepts can be orthogonal in that sense.

We are at liberty to have or not have licenses.

regards,
Fred




Post 5

Monday, July 29 - 9:12pmSanction this postReply
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Fred,

I half-agree with that, but the bruiser is that the exercise of licentious activity -- like robbing folks, for instance -- usually or perhaps always infringes on true liberty. So, it is more like they are "antagonal" (antagonists) than being completely orthogonal.

Ed




Post 6

Wednesday, July 31 - 8:59pmSanction this postReply
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Ugh, somebody just answered "if I was promised total security." I wonder why. If you answered that and would like to comment, please do. My understanding of the matter leads me to believe that if citizens want total security then there will be control-freak authoritarians willing to step up to the plate and launch us into becoming a repressive police state as bad or worse than East Germany.

People risked their lives trying to escape from that kind of "total security."

Ed




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