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Sunday, January 18, 2009 - 9:02amSanction this postReply
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Evil is impotent so it has to "piggy-back" on -- or try very hard to resemble -- the good. That's how you can get to the deliberately-confusing, contradictory phrase: "Independence from selfishness."

In his speech, Obama said that we need the idealism of the Founding Fathers (i.e., a systematic body of concepts about life) but then -- in the next breath -- he said that we need independence from ideology (i.e., a systematic body of concepts about life). He's says in one breath that we ought to adopt the values of the Founding Fathers while dispensing with the notion of adopting any particular set of values.

Does anyone else's head hurt from that?

:-)

When Obama says ideology, he means "other people's ideologies" (OPI) -- and he means to use it in a disparaging sense. However, when it's his ideology, then he calls it "idealism" --i.e., he conflates it with what the Founding Fathers thought and valued, and therefore exempts himself from any criticism. It's an example of cosmopolitan ("ivory-tower" liberal), single-sided snobbery. It's how evil survives.

Ed

(Edited by Ed Thompson on 1/18, 9:14am)


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Sunday, January 18, 2009 - 11:27amSanction this postReply
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Does sanctioning an evil quote with a red check mean we sanction the evil or the identification of it?

I assume the latter but the former possibility gives me pause.

(Edited by Luke Setzer on 1/18, 11:28am)


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Sunday, January 18, 2009 - 11:34amSanction this postReply
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If it troubles you, find an old post by the same person and sanction that instead.

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Sunday, January 18, 2009 - 12:46pmSanction this postReply
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Just as an aside... the phrase "our better angels" is from Charles Dickens in Barnaby Rudge, 1840, "...the shadows of our own desires stand between us and our better angels, and thus their brightness is eclipsed.

Then the phrase pops up Lincoln's first Inaugural address in 1861. Where he finished with this paragraph, "I am loath to close. We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies. Though passion may have strained it must not break our bonds of affection. The mystic chords of memory, stretching from every battlefield and patriot grave to every living heart and hearthstone all over this broad land, will yet swell the chorus of the Union, when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature."

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Sunday, January 18, 2009 - 2:24pmSanction this postReply
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Maybe the independence from all that stuff can start with all the people I see with dish network that I know are on welfare.....

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Sunday, January 18, 2009 - 3:12pmSanction this postReply
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Luke,

I see the tension that you wrestle with. However, I think that the intention of your sanction is clear -- that you are recognizing the value of exposing/analyzing a dis-value.

I'm sure that most all folks here (and other folks, presumably) recognize the intention of someone like Obama using a phrase like "independence from selfishness" or of someone like Obama saying, in one breath, that we need idealism and, in the next breath, that we need independence from ideology.

Even if initially confused, they'd get the point with my first post in this thread. I think the vast majority of us recognize the absurdity of that kind of doublespeak, nonsense-on-stilts. It's propaganda appealing to mob feelings. Most all of us are all too familiar with that kind of a trick. So, sanctioning me for publicly uncovering this isn't really a bad idea at all.

;-)

Ed

(Edited by Ed Thompson on 1/18, 3:13pm)


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Sunday, January 18, 2009 - 5:34pmSanction this postReply
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Oh, all right, Ed, you win.

Quote sanctioned!

;-)

Post 7

Sunday, January 18, 2009 - 6:32pmSanction this postReply
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Thanks, Luke.

Ed


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Sunday, January 18, 2009 - 10:31pmSanction this postReply
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What transparent, empty rhetoric! If only our president-elect actually believed in independence. But, of course, he doesn't. He doesn't believe that people should be independent from the government's encroachment and interference. Nor does he believe that they should stand on their own two feet. Bailing out the Big Banks and the Big Three and God knows who else is just about the furthest thing from endorsing the virtue of independence that one could imagine!

- Bill

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Sunday, January 18, 2009 - 10:42pmSanction this postReply
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Independence from all those awful restrictions imposed by the constitution?

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Sunday, January 18, 2009 - 10:55pmSanction this postReply
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    "Independence from all those awful restrictions imposed by the constitution?"

Now that's lateral thinking!

Regards,
--
Jeff

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