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Post 20

Saturday, September 5, 2009 - 12:00pmSanction this postReply
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I have read Harry Browne's book. It's been a long time, I remember liking it, reading parts of it twice. There is good practical advice. I liked Robert Ringer better.

As far as being "blocked", I think we are limited by our imaginations more than by other people. If you think the first thing you try "ought" to work and are unable or unwilling to simply try something else you will feel unnecessarily oppressed or defeated often. One of the best pieces of advice I gleaned from the various books by Harry Browne, Robert Ringer and a few others is never negotiate from a position of weakness. Always be willing to walk away, there will always be another opportunity. I've gotten a couple of very good jobs over the years, I could have very easily thought "this is way over my head" and performed miserably in the interview with no chance of getting the job. Instead, I went in with the attitude that there would be other opportunities if I didn't get this one and I would just perform as well as I could in this interview as practice for the next one. About a year after I started one job my manager talked to me about the interview "I thought I was the one being interviewed" he said. "You were" I said. He laughed.

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Post 21

Saturday, September 5, 2009 - 5:36pmSanction this postReply
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Robert, thank you for actually posting useful information instead of emo-raging and telling people they're stupid.

Steve, I think you're way out of line on this one. Yes, I did in fact read your post # 10. No further context was provided until Robert did so. Not only that, but this thread wasn't a "discuss this book" thread or a "If you've read this, what do you think?" thread. It was a single quote posting with a little blue hyperlink that said DISCUSS THIS QUOTE. I did so to the best of my knowledge, while being intellectually honest enough to directly state I wasn't commenting on the parts of the book I hadn't read. If you don't believe that any meaningful discussion can be had with the quote out of context, then don't post the damn thing out of context or participate in a thread that can only be a discussion of the individual quote on its own merits.
The average joe comment is a question of relevance to the target audience. I would assume the author would want mass interest in his work, and maybe even change people's perspective. In the context given in the thread, one quote and its connotations, wondering if the target audience needs lessons in compromise is a pretty valid question. And I didn't say the name should be changed, I said the parts I had been exposed to READ like something else.
As long as we're discussing what RoR readers SHOULD be doing when interacting with each other, this thread got exactly two posters who actually hadn't read the work. I have attempted to discuss on some level and the other contribution was of the opinion that this is a crock of shit. What have you accomplished by calling someone attempting discussion stupid? Aside from pissing me off that is. If you wanted a discussion circle with only lovers of the work, there are private methods of communication out there.

Did I miss anything?
Yes, your response was emotionally WAY out of line for the level of "provocation" you've been given by me. Until this post I hadn't even addressed you in the thread. You've come out guns blazing quite a few times in posts lately, ever since that bullshit anarchy/statism thread a few weeks ago.


Post 22

Saturday, September 5, 2009 - 6:28pmSanction this postReply
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It would help to know where Robert cut and pasted from.

Post 23

Saturday, September 5, 2009 - 6:50pmSanction this postReply
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Ryan,

I made two posts and Luke made one, and Robert made one BEFORE your first post. It was clear by the time you made your first post that the quote needed a context. Why would you launch your sarcastic attack when three people had already said the context was needed? Why didn't you ask what the context was?

In post #8 all I did was make it very clear that you had to read the book to understand that quote. And I continued to recommend the book. And I was strong in saying that it made no sense to discuss the quote without reading the book. But there were no insults, no name calling, and no "emo-raging."

In post #10 I said, "That quote needs context to be understood." And that is all that I said in that post.

You decided to make comments about what you seem to think that book says. That is part of the reason I made the reply that you got upset about. The other reason I made that reply is that I think you are an intelligent person - I've liked many of your posts and respected the reasoning behind them. And this is a book I'd like lots of people, especially people I respect, to read.

Go back and reread post #16. I NEVER called you stupid. I said that you said some stupid things. Which is true. And I just don't see any "emo-raging" There are people who post here that I wouldn't bother to make all of these replies to over such a trivial issue - you saw Ted's post, "Move along, there is nothing to see here" and he's right - this is all too, too trivial. Go back and reread that post of mine that upset you and see if you can find the words or phrases in there that amount to "emo-raging". And, I wasn't the one who posted the quote - I've just pointed out that it can't be understood without the context.

I was feeling impatient, and failed to sugar-coat my words, but they weren't "emo-raging" or anything you should have gotten pissed off over. I wasn't so much as "provoked," or feeling like you were attacking me. I was just irritated that Browne's book was getting the dirty end of the stick without being understood since it hadn't been read. As to the Anarcho-Capitalism thing - Yes, I came out guns blazing then. Anarchy is the enemy of anyone that believes in individual rights and should be attacked.

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Post 24

Saturday, September 5, 2009 - 6:57pmSanction this postReply
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Ted,

I Googled and found that review here.

Post 25

Saturday, September 5, 2009 - 7:27pmSanction this postReply
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Thanks, Steve. Seemed, actually writing something, unusual for Robert, no insults and that didn't end...

Post 26

Saturday, September 5, 2009 - 7:44pmSanction this postReply
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Steve, Yes, there were a few posts before mine. I scanned over them, the parts that caught my eye weren't particularly compelling, and honestly, I didn't look very hard because they were specifically addressed to Teresa. Luke posted specifically regarding my post and mentioned the possibility that I was slamming the book. You posted a simple "You're wrong. You're clueless. Do this if you are X. I don't want to argue about it." post. Given that I've built up quite a tolerance to statements such as those I gave the first 3 minimal attention, and attempted to grant you your stated desire not to argue about it. My next post specifically addressed Luke's statement that I might be slamming the book, and elaborate on the things I had alluded to in my inital joking post, diplomatically I thought.

I think your statement about feeling attacked is possibly the crux of the issue. It sounds like something else is happening behind the scenes there because at no point was a post of mine even addressed to you before your lengthy post to me. Everything I said was directly relevant to the quote posted for discussion. I was unaware that an "attack" on this work was an attack on Steve Wolfer.

You were correct in your response to the anarcho-capitalism thing, in my opinion. I only mention it as the marker after which I noticed a change in tone and temperment in many of your posts.


PS - "stupid things" are said by stupid people. That statement doesn't have to be some kind of point of contention here, but come on man. That was an attempt to get "stupid" and "you" as close as possible without actually saying "You are being stupid, Ryan."


Post 27

Saturday, September 5, 2009 - 8:43pmSanction this postReply
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Ryan,

Let me say again, I don't think you are stupid.

Einstein has said stupid things, I have said stupid things, we have all said stupid things. So, you are definitely taking that wrong.
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When I address a post to someone, it isn't meant to exclude others.
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You said, "I think your statement about feeling attacked is possibly the crux of the issue." But I said I wasn't feeling attacked. I was just seeing Browne's book being trashed without having been read - that's not an attack on me, doesn't feel like an attack on me, but doesn't mean that I don't attempt to support a good book that is being dismissed without cause.

Post 28

Saturday, September 5, 2009 - 8:47pmSanction this postReply
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Look, Poor Richard already left us after one of these 49 post long contentless threads.

If this doesn't stop NOW I will start posting images of dead horses for you guys to whip.

Post 29

Saturday, September 5, 2009 - 11:17pmSanction this postReply
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"...I will start posting images of dead horses..."

And that would be different in what way? :-)

Post 30

Saturday, September 5, 2009 - 11:29pmSanction this postReply
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Okay, Steve, you wanna play like that? The Indo-Europeans did have a ritual horse cult, and they didn't just kill horses.

(Edited by Ted Keer on 9/05, 11:32pm)


Post 31

Sunday, September 6, 2009 - 10:34amSanction this postReply
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Yeah, I think this thread is about dead. Its a pity, I'm inclined to keep going on general principle now that we apparently have a RoR hall monitor.

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