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Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 3:05pmSanction this postReply
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House Democrats to Wilson: Apologize or Face Censure



Now is the time for Wilson to stand firm. He apologized for the outburst. I don't think he should have. Obama wanted him there as a silent sanctioning victim. Maybe Wilson thinks he should have held his tongue till afterwards. Fine.

But Obama lied. There should be no apology for the substance of the statement. Now the democrats want him to apologize again of face censure. In other words, dissent is now illegal.

Tell them Dems where they can stick it, Joe. Stand your ground. If this be treason, make the most of it.

(Edited by Ted Keer on 9/10, 3:47pm)


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Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 4:13pmSanction this postReply
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Say it ain't so, Joe. Say it ain't so.

Wilson could have really carried the momentum if he'd backed himself up. He should have held a press conference, walked to the mic, and said "He did lie". End of story. As to civility, in my opinion congress doesn't have a tradition of civility. It certainly didn't begin that way. It began with a double fisted bird to tyranny and an invitation to settle the matter with blood and steel should the tyrants feel the need to press the issue.


As an aside to the "truth to power" crew that went silent after the inauguration. It doesn't look so admirable when you have the power and they have the truth, does it Dems?



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Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 4:35pmSanction this postReply
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I agree. He should have held a press conference and listed all of the lies - there were SO many of them. And calmly pointed out each one and how it is that the President had to have know that it was a lie before he said it.

If he wanted to, he could have apologized, not for what he said, but for saying so during the speech, or for saying it when he had agreed to a set of rules that prohibit that, or for stepping outside of customary House etiquette- but NEVER for speaking the truth. And then it should have been a very light, almost throw-away apology so that people were unable to escape the point that the real moral transgression was the series of bald lies - not their honest identification.

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Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 5:08pmSanction this postReply
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The House bill has a section(Sec. 246) that prohibits illegal aliens from obtaining coverage under the proposed plan.
Just letting you guys know.

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Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 5:18pmSanction this postReply
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Maybe you could give some text and a link, Steve, because

That's not what I heard:

Congressional Research Service: Illegal Aliens Can Receive Benefits Under House Health Care Bill
Congressional Research Service ^ | 8/26/09 | PRNewswire-USNewswire
Posted on August 26, 2009 3:35:46 PM EDT by Laissez-faire capitalist

Tuesday, the Congressional Research Service (CRS) the "research arm" for the United States Congress issued a report validating an analysis by the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) that illegal aliens would be able to receive benefits under the House health care reform bill, America's Affordable Health Care Act of 2009 (H.R. 3200). The report, Treatment of Noncitizens in H.R. 3200 does not contain any restrictions on noncitizens - whether legally or illegally present, or in the U.S. temporarily or permanently...

CRS also confirms... that the House bill does not include a mechanism to prevent illegal aliens from receiving "affordability credits" that would subsidize the purchase of private health insurance. CRS specifically noted the absence "of a provision in the bill specifying the verification procedure." Because the language is ambiguous, all CRS could reasonably conclude is that any eligibility determination would be the responsibility of the Health Choices Commission.

The CRS analysis comes after weeks of denials by members of Congress that illegal aliens could receive benefits under the House bill...

"Case closed. Illegal aliens will be aligible to participate...in the health care program" stated Dan Stein, president of FAIR. "The loopholes and omissions in the House bill are not there by accident," continued Stein. "These loopholes were intended to extend benefits to illegal aliens while allowing members of Congress to dent those facts to the American people."

...

(Excerpt) Read more at news.prnewswire.com ...

TOPICS: Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 111th; agenda; aliens; amnesty; angrymob; barackobama; bho44; bhohealthcare; bhoillegals; congress; corruption; democrats; healthcare; illegalaliens; illegalimmigrants; illegals; immigrantlist; immigration; obama; obamacare; socialism; socializedmedicine; taxes; townhall; townhalls
At the article it states further that it has been found that amendments to H.R. 3200, which would verify citizenship status and eligibility to receive federal health care benefits under Obamcare, were defeated by Democrats. One such amendment was from Dean Heller. It was defeated by Democrats on a party-line 26-15 vote.

His amendment would have employed the use of 2 verification procedures already used by the federal government to check on income eligibility and citizenship status. The verification procedures the governemnt already uses are IEVS and SAVE.

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Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 5:38pmSanction this postReply
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Section 246 states: Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.

It's there. Look it up.

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Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 5:57pmSanction this postReply
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That is meaningless. It neither prohibits such payments nor does it have any mechanism to stop such payments. Indeed, as I showed, the mechanism was voted down. As for looking it up, you made the claim, you have the burden.

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Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 6:16pmSanction this postReply
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The bill prohibits payments being made to illegals. How that will be enforced is not made clear...yet.

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to help Obama in this forum. I just like to know what's what. As far as I can tell there is a lot of yelling about a lot of nothing.

I hope that Obama fails, not because I dislike him, but because I think his ideas and policies are terrible. I'd also like to see congress fail. I'd like to see the Republicans fail (oh boy would I). It's not a very popular place to be, but I'll stand right where I'm at and hope that they keep failing.

That's where I'm coming from. It doesn't really matter to me what this Joe Wilson says. Joe Wilson is no hero just because he said something that might be true (I'm not sure yet). I'd like to see what garbage he's been voting for or sponsoring since he's been up on the hill.

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Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 6:27pmSanction this postReply
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I'm not so sure, Steve. With your new Melnibonéan avatar I think you may indeed have joined the forces of Chaos.

(Edited by Ted Keer on 9/11, 2:59pm)


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Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 6:29pmSanction this postReply
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Steve,

You are talking about Section 246 which has neither a verification nor an enforcement clause. All it has is a single weasel-worded sentence, "Nothing in this subtitle shall allow federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States". There are about 71 means-tested federal programs that require the use of the SAVE system to prevent illegal immigrants and other ineligible non-citizens from accessing them. In July an amendment was proposed by Rep. Heller (R-Nev.) that would have required use of the SAVE program but was defeated by the House Ways and Means Committee.

And the Congressional Research Service, in the summary, states, “Under HR 3200, all legal permanent residents (LPRs), non-immigrants, and unauthorized aliens who meet the substantial presence test… would be required to obtain health insurance.” [emphasis by bolding is mine] 'Substantial presence' is defined as having been in the States for at least 31 days during the current year and at least 183 days during the current year and previous two years. No mention is made of legal status in the legislation for determining substantial presence.

We should not grant Obama the benefit of the doubt - he was a legislator before becoming President - he KNOWS that illegal aliens would get medical care - he KNOWS about the need for verification and enforcement and he knows that such an amendment was defeated. We need to call these slimy politicians liars and hold them accountable. Pretending to ourselves that maybe they thought it was taken care or that he really didn't know, is how they get away with being liars and continuing on decade after decade.

Some of the stuff he said is just unbelievable. He guaranteed it would be revenue neutral. He offered to put in triggers that would force spending cuts or revenue enhancements if it didn't pay for itself. Think about that for second. It's like he had said, "Pass my bill so I can start nationalizing our medical care system, and it it doesn't work just perfectly, I'll go gut some other program to reduce spending, and/or increase taxes till we get it all taken care of."


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Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 6:53pmSanction this postReply
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On a weird related note. I read a quote from Pelosi (I think) earlier today where she stated that premiums would have a cap but coverage would be unlimited. Then there was the pause where it was expected that the listener to not realize that is a totally insane and unsustainable expectation.

On the topic of illegals. I'll start by saying that I just don't care about this issue to be honest. But come on, both sides of the political spectrum have consistently provided loopholes in every possible program for illegals, not to mention the frequent charge of discrimination for anyone actually checking. Besides, illegals already have pretty kick ass insurance. Go to emergency room, get treated, walk out, don't pay.  


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Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 7:31pmSanction this postReply
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In the early Nineties I was gainfully employed but not insured working for a small publishing company. I broke a rib, which I didn't realize the next day, until I sneezed. You would not believe such pain is possible. I went to the emergency room. The orderlies (I have no evidence they were doctors) spent seven hours not treating me, implying finally that I was there to get opiates for an addiction. Duh! If I wanted smack it was just down the street. The assholes. I received no treatment, no tests, no medication. I just sat in a room for seven hours. They sent a bill for $700.00. Don't think I paid it.

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Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 8:08pmSanction this postReply
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Wow, talk about differences in perception. When I was doing clinicals I noted a guy that had been in the ER over 70 times by march of this year. He was too developmentally delayed to meet the psych facility profile, and too crazy to meet the developmentally delay profile. So no facility would deal with him. So his family would drop him off at the ER when they needed a babysitter.
I've also seen the docs around here pretty much give the drug seekers whatever, too afraid not too.
I have heard that that facilities in larger urban areas do get a little more balsy with shafting patients though.

edit-

Now that I think about it, there have been some pretty high profile negligence cases since the early nineties. Maybe that accounts for a little bit of change too.

(Edited by Ryan Keith Roper on 9/10, 8:10pm)


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