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Tuesday, June 8, 2010 - 1:08pmSanction this postReply
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Got a citation?

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Tuesday, June 8, 2010 - 2:07pmSanction this postReply
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It is disputed.

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Tuesday, June 8, 2010 - 4:41pmSanction this postReply
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It's odd that the wikipedia entry claims it's disputed Merlin, since they cite Nichomecean Ethics, and it's clear that is what Aristotle meant. At the very least the quote is a paraphrase:

Another possible origin of the "dear is Plato" statement is in the Nicomachean Ethics; the Ross translation (of 1096a11-1096a16) provides: "We had perhaps better consider the universal good and discuss thoroughly what is meant by it, although such an inquiry is made an uphill one by the fact that the Forms have been introduced by friends of our own. Yet it would perhaps be thought to be better, indeed to be our duty, for the sake of maintaining the truth even to destroy what touches us closely, especially as we are philosophers; for, while both are dear, piety requires us to honour truth above our friends."


Which friend could he be possibly talking about? Obviously Plato and his school of philosophy, since Plato is attributed with the philosophical theory of Forms.

Satisfied Peter?




(Edited by John Armaos on 6/08, 5:15pm)


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Tuesday, June 8, 2010 - 6:41pmSanction this postReply
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It's odd that the wikipedia entry claims it's disputed Merlin, since they cite Nichomecean Ethics, and it's clear that is what Aristotle meant.
John, this is my take on it. What is disputed is that Aristotle said or wrote the quoted sentence (translated from Greek, of course). Getting it by a liberal paraphrase or that he likely would have agreed with it is not the issue.


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Tuesday, June 8, 2010 - 7:06pmSanction this postReply
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I wouldn't call it a "liberal" paraphrase Merlin. It's absolutely clear the quote I posted carries the same meaning as the translation the wikipedia entry cites. I would call it a reasonable paraphrase since its meaning is not altered in anyway. We know who he is referencing, so the only thing really missing is that explicit reference to Plato, but we know there is no other possible explanation who he is referring to as his friends. Given it's not the original Greek we are reading, that translation could easily be the quote I provided with the exception of the direct reference to Plato.

But in either case I heard it from a lecture series from the "Teaching Company". These are lectures given by university professors. I'll try and track down that specific source where I heard it.




(Edited by John Armaos on 6/08, 11:34pm)


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Tuesday, June 8, 2010 - 11:14pmSanction this postReply
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The sentiment expressed by Aristotle in Nicomacean ethics is clear enough, the concept is captured by the paraphrased quote quite well, though I don't know where the paraphrased version originated. It's not unreasonable to boil something down from it's specific context to make a generally applicable statement when the idea itself is generally applicable.

The confusion between it and Newton's quote is spurious and likely only arose because people looked into the matter for two seconds and, finding Newton said something almost identical, rejected it as disputed. The fact of the matter is that Newton knew of this quote and idea by Aristotle, as he was a great admirer of Aristotles, as Aristotles teachings dominated natural philosophy during this time. Newton's own ideas showed him though that Aristotle was wrong about inertia. Aristotle argued that without a force pushing something it stopped moving (a reasonable assessment for the technology of the period) Newton came to understand that forces only change motion, and this contradicted Aristotle. Admiring Aristotle, Newton was stressed out by this, but eventually, citing Aristotle rejection of his teachers teachings in favor of the truth, Newton wrote in the margin of one of his notebooks the very same thing but paraphrased to his specific circumstance.

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