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Monday, November 1, 2010 - 11:51amSanction this postReply
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The whole article is well worth reading for such wonderfully snarky comments like this:

"This year, though, I want to address a particular and in my view rather pernicious species of electoral wowserism – the belief on the part of the Democratic Party that it has something approaching property rights over the vote of anyone to the left of, say, the New York Times opinion page."

On my absentee general election ballot, I voted for both the Libertarian Party Candidates, and then in the remaining races did lesser-of-two-evils when one candidate was conspicuously more evil or ignorant than the other, with blank ballots for the rest of the races.
(Edited by Jim Henshaw on 11/01, 12:05pm)


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Post 1

Tuesday, November 2, 2010 - 9:48amSanction this postReply
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I recall you've brought up this argument before and it still seems to be a fallacious mathematical view. You can simply change the argument and substitute in any other aggregate metric to see the fallacy. To use an analogy if you run a business and you try to please one customer it isn't going to be the deciding factor that keeps your business afloat, so therefore why bother trying to please your customers. I think it's obvious this view drops the whole concept of an aggregate all together as effecting a mathematical outcome.
(Edited by John Armaos on 11/02, 9:55am)


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Wednesday, November 3, 2010 - 7:54pmSanction this postReply
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John,

I think the difference is that you have only one vote, and it is unlikely that that vote by itself will decide an election. But as a business person, you aren't restricted to serving only one customer.


Post 3

Wednesday, November 3, 2010 - 8:16pmSanction this postReply
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Bill,

As an aside, I've always thought that the "you only have one vote..." argument contained a logical flaw of a kind that should have a name.

The crux of the argument is about this one person being addressed, but the implication, if it is carried out, is that something universal has been said. In other words, if my vote is only one then it won't change the outcome, therefore I might as well stay home. But if that argument applies to everyone that only has one vote, which is every legal voter, then it will make no difference if everyone stays home.

It is like a bait and switch game. They bait you with the assumption that only one person is being considered and clearly the idea of that single vote changing the outcome of the election is silly, but the switch is that the logic is implied to hold true for a much broader class of voters.



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Thursday, November 4, 2010 - 6:36amSanction this postReply
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Hi Bill you're right that as a businessman you have more control over your business, but I meant to illustrate the fallacy of dropping an aggregate as effecting a mathematical outcome. Of course one vote doesn't sway an election, but we've never only counted one vote, we count all of them, and that aggregate decides the outcome. Similarly a businessman does not focus on just one transaction as a determining factor for the success of his business, he takes in the aggregate. So the objection to voting doesn't make any sense, in this case the objection depends on a solipsistic view of voting, that one individual is all that matters in an election. One hair on your head doesn't determine if you have a full head of hair either. One soldier who saved his company and killed a dozen enemy soldiers is not the sole determining factor for winning a war either. The idea is that in those cases an outcome is determined by an aggregate, the combined actions/existence of multiple units/individuals.





(Edited by John Armaos on 11/04, 6:43am)


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Thursday, November 4, 2010 - 5:26pmSanction this postReply
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If you live in a community where you know the people already, and you know that the significant majority of them are going to vote to take your stuff, and that majority wins, then what is the point in voting? The outcome is destine whether you vote or not.

Its only when there is a close race that the vote is worthwhile... unless you are voting simply to say "I'd like to keep my stuff." But you don't have to vote to say that.

Post 6

Thursday, November 4, 2010 - 6:00pmSanction this postReply
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Every vote becomes a close vote if enough people decide not to vote. There are also those votes that were not supposed to be close but end up so. Politics does occasionally surprise.

Nothing should be called "destiny" when it is a product of human choice.

You vote because actions have consequences and because you take what actions you can when they support your values.

And, as I pointed out in a post above, there is a logical fallacy in reasoning from the individual vote's effect on an election to an implied rational for all voters to follow the same pattern. Clearly, if all individuals didn't vote, just because one vote won't change an election, then based upon that, no one would vote, and then there would be no election.

Also, it is often the case that the size of this year's vote will effect what the next year's vote will be, and even effects political actions between elections. What we are learning over time is that it is even important to demand more and vote accordingly in local races, judges, etc. They can influence grass roots power.

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Thursday, November 4, 2010 - 9:23pmSanction this postReply
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I was talking about what you have control over, and you have control over only a single vote, yours. So what you have control over is probably not going to decide an election.

It is true, of course, that if everyone decided not to vote, because they didn't think that their vote would make a difference, there would be no election. So, everyone's votes collectively do make a difference, but you don't have control over everyone's votes. You don't have control over whether or not they will vote or whom they will vote for. You have control over only your own voting decision, which by itself is unlikely to sway an election.

(Edited by William Dwyer on 11/04, 9:26pm)


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Post 8

Thursday, November 4, 2010 - 11:36pmSanction this postReply
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There is no collective group of votes apart from the individuals that make up that group. If there is a rational reason for each individual to not vote because of he is just one vote, then the same rational applies to the entire collective. It doesn't make sense to hold to a rational for not voting unless you are saying the same rational applies to the collective.

If I say that it makes sense for me to not vote because just one vote doesn't count, then no one should vote. The logic is the same for them. Voting as a mechanism for choosing a representative and it doesn't work if we don't support it. We need the mechanism as a part of making laws which we need to protect individual rights. What we can do is say, "I'm not going to vote, but I'll let the others go ahead and vote. And that way the mechanism will keep working." But I don't buy into that - it is a double standard. If I value objective law that supports individual rights, then I need to vote in support of my values. Not voting is not supporting my own values.

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Friday, November 5, 2010 - 7:03amSanction this postReply
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Dean the only problem is you don't always know how the rest of your citizens will vote. You may have an idea, based on polling results, on the probabilities of the outcome. But as we've seen those polls are never 100% accurate. And in some instances where a poll has shown a candidate winning by a few percentage points they've ended up losing by a half-dozen point margin.

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Post 10

Friday, November 5, 2010 - 7:20amSanction this postReply
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By the way according to the quote above I should be experiencing a psychological toll for voting. I don't at all because I understand the choices that I have, not the imagined one of choosing a Platonic Ideal that doesn't exist. In fact not voting to me places a psychological toll on me, because then I know I'm just striking a moral pose, betraying my own self-interests by sacrificing them to some fraudulent notion I'm standing on principle. The supposed principle one is standing on according to the sentiment in the above quote is feeling good, regardless of whether that feeling corresponds to anything in reality. This is psychologically damaging.

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Tuesday, November 9, 2010 - 10:14pmSanction this postReply
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Question: Is it ever rational to abstain from voting? Is there ever a good rationale for doing so?



Post 12

Tuesday, November 9, 2010 - 11:07pmSanction this postReply
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"Is it ever rational to abstain from voting?"

Yes, when it can be shown that it does not serve its purpose of protecting existing freedom or moving towards greater freedom.

For example, if there is real choice on the ballot. Say, there are only two people running in a particular race, no third party, no write-in space, no "None of the above," and the two people are both unacceptable to the extent that a rational person would not sanction either for the office, even as a partial step in the right direction.
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Here is a question... When someone says they didn't vote in a particular race, did they go to the polling both and vote in other races? Or, did they skip voting for any of the positions?

That might change the answer to, "Yes, if voting as a mechanism, as it exists in the particular county or country can be shown as totally non-effective in moving the government towards more freedom, (or keeping it from moving towards more statism). Like a vote when you know that voter fraud is so high that it will always change the outcome."

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