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Thursday, May 15, 2008 - 12:56amSanction this postReply
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Funny thing is, my younger brother was a cop in the town I live in now, and he told me that the police in Washington state can't pull you over for not having a seat belt on. They have to have another reason for pulling you over. But that being said, here is this.
   On my way home from work, a couple of nights ago, as I was getting off of the I5, I came to a dead stop at an accident where the car had flipped over after running into a power box and a road sign. I pulled over to check if everyone was okay. To my surprise, none of the 3 people in the car had a single scratch on them. All 3 people were wearing safety belts. This is what saved them all from being injured.
   Does the government have an obligation to save people from themselves? I think they do. But only as far as they may harm themselves or others by their actions. 
   Just like they limit the speed we go on the freeways, and tell us to drive a certain direction in the lanes that we choose to use, they tell us that we must where seat belts.



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Post 1

Thursday, May 15, 2008 - 1:23amSanction this postReply
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Oddly, I find those commercials far more disturbing than the seatbelt laws themselves.  The tone is frighteningly authoritarian.


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Post 2

Thursday, May 15, 2008 - 2:47amSanction this postReply
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I am almost sad that I posted this video, it is so disgusting.

The first seat-belt law in the nation was enacted in NJ where I was a teen. The police were not allowed to pull anyone over for violating it. (It was said that this would always be the case.) You simply incurred an additional fine if you were pulled over for a moving violation and were found unbuckled. The major justification was that NJ had the highest automobile insurance rates in the nation, and, besides, the law would save lives. Of course, it was the "no fault" insurance policies mandated by the state that made insurance so expensive. If you were drunk and driving with your lights out, ran a stop sign and broadsided me, causing $2,000,000 in medical bills for the six passengers in my car, my insurer would foot half the bill, and my rates would quintuple, because nobody was at fault! No need to litigate, just punish the victim.

New Jersey passed a new law in the 90's allowing stops for seatbelt violations alone. The politicians swore this would never happen.

And now we have these slick Hollywood hip-hop style ads they are playing here in NY (not the same as the one I posted) advertising the national advent of this nanny state intrusion. I actually always wear a belt. I know enough people who have died in accidents, and the idea irks me, but I do the right thing even though I'm being coerced to do it.

This ad campaign nauseates me. Just think what Hitler could have done with such PR. How long until kids start pressing the OnStar button to rat out their scofflaw parents?

O tempora, o mores!

(Edited by Ted Keer on 5/15, 11:07am)


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Post 3

Thursday, May 15, 2008 - 5:31amSanction this postReply
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DESC wrote (with my emphasis added):

Does the government have an obligation to save people from themselves? I think they do. But only as far as they may harm themselves or others by their actions.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The government needs to stay out of the business of regulating people to protect them from themselves.

If they harm others through initiations of physical force or fraud, then yes, as a political institution, the government has a role to play.

Otherwise, it needs to butt out!

I had an interesting exchange in the The Toastmaster magazine letters section recently about this very issue and just published an RoR blog on it.

(Edited by Luke Setzer on 5/15, 8:40am)


Post 4

Thursday, May 15, 2008 - 5:54amSanction this postReply
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This video has been taken down ... "We're sorry, this video is no longer available."

Would someone please give a recap?

Thanks

Sam


Post 5

Thursday, May 15, 2008 - 10:36amSanction this postReply
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Works just fine for me...


Post 6

Thursday, May 15, 2008 - 10:45amSanction this postReply
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I have the same problem as Sam.

Post 7

Thursday, May 15, 2008 - 10:55amSanction this postReply
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Well, then you guys are obviously not clickin' the link properly!

;o)


Post 8

Thursday, May 15, 2008 - 11:20amSanction this postReply
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I have no problem with the link.

Here's another, in Spanish, but quite comprehensible even if tu no hables espaņol.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_ZOkkoch0o&feature=related

If you follow that, you will see many related videos posted to the right. The 30 second ones are mostly actual commercials, the longer ones are parodies or outraged protests.

I agree with Luke's criticism. I could possibly see fining parents who don't protect minors and are pulled over for moving violations.

Argh! As I type this the local news is reading an effing press release about how NY state is goingg to crack down on seat-belt scofflaws! Where are my cyanide pills?

Here's the original embeded video for those having problems. It is not the "best" of the commercials.



Post 9

Thursday, May 15, 2008 - 11:24amSanction this postReply
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Another draft version, wait for the vid to start after the credits. This one's particularly disgusting.



Post 10

Thursday, May 15, 2008 - 11:44amSanction this postReply
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We have had this same sequence here in WA state for years now, 'cause we're a lot more "progressive" than the rest of the country! First it was passage of the seatbelt law that was not going to be enforced. Then after a year, it was a ticket if you were stopped for another violation. Then, it was $118 fine for simply not wearing a seatbelt. I think the fine might actually be greater now.

Anyone old enough to remember the furor over the issuing of Social Security Numbers as an invasion of privacy? To get acceptance, it was printed on the cards, "Not for the purpose of identification". How's that working out for everyone these days? Do they even print this on new SS cards?

What I really like about Ted's last video is the not-so-subtle way they show how your own family can and should "turn against" you. There's nothing that Orwell or Huxley was able to envision that hasn't come true in spades. Of course, their prediction that people would just roll over and take it was right on the mark!

Regards,
--
Jeff

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Post 11

Tuesday, May 20, 2008 - 11:13pmSanction this postReply
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When I was 16, driving my open 1942 Ford army jeep on the narrow gravel road between Golden and Boulder, Colorado the three cub scouts started hollering at me to go faster.  So I did, lost control and we flipped off the road bounced upside down(windshield was crumpled) and back on its wheels to be driven home by me.   Fortunately there were no seat belts or roll bar so we flew clear of the rolling jeep with only a few cuts and bruises and a story to tell. 

I installed after-market seat belts in my brand new bright red 1959 MGA to be held tighter in my seat as I four-wheel drifted down the paved Boulder Canyon.   I drove a lot more carefully *before* I added the seat belts.

I assume that drivers will have less accidents if their legs extend out over the front bumpers or if there was a sharp ice pick pointing out of the steering wheel at their chests.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1564465,00.html
The Hidden Danger of Seat Belts


Post 12

Wednesday, May 21, 2008 - 1:11amSanction this postReply
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"I assume that drivers will have less accidents if their legs extend out over the front bumpers or if there was a sharp ice pick pointing out of the steering wheel at their chests."

LOL!

Post 13

Wednesday, May 21, 2008 - 8:44amSanction this postReply
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I agree with Ted.

That was great, Dale!


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