RoR: Forum

How about this: consciousness is acting upon information to create new information or actions. I was wrong about sensory being consciousness. Sensory is input, actions are output, consciousness is the process of acting upon or transforming the the input to create the output.

Post 21

Sunday, March 12, 2006 - 6:56pm

I wrote, "I just don't see how consciousness can be equated with identification, as she says in Galt's speech."

Robert Malcom replied, "It is if you recognise she's referring to the explicit, not the implicit."

I don't understand your answer, Robert. Care to elaborate? What do you mean by "explicit" versus "implicit" in this context? An example or two might help. Thanks.

- Bill

Post 22

Sunday, March 12, 2006 - 7:28pm

The explicit is referring to the cognitive consciousness, whereas the implicit is the perceptual awareness - it was always my understanding she was referring to the volitional consciousness as 'identification', not the awareness stemming from mere perceptual, which while are associative are not, by her, indentifying.

Post 23

Sunday, March 12, 2006 - 8:20pm

Thanks, Robert. I'll think about it. It's just that she uses also the term "consciousness" in the same context (Galt's speech) to mean simple awareness, as when she says that a consciousness conscious of nothing is a contradiction in terms. So I'm not entirely comfortable with that explanation.

Dean, I don't think that your definition of consciousness is Objectivism's. According to Rand, consciousness is awareness of reality, and is understood ostensively by direct experience.

- Bill

Post 24

Monday, March 13, 2006 - 6:24am

If I may add, when she wrote "Consciousness is Identification," I really don't think that she was including the idea of any kind, or level, of consciousness (such as fish or birds), but was speaking only of CONCEPTUAL consciousness as the means for doing what she then referred to as Identifying rather than merely pure Awareness-of-'some'thing.

LLAP
J:D

Post 25

Monday, March 13, 2006 - 3:21pm

Quite true - she was speaking ,as most humans do, and as Galt was - to fellow humans, who consider 'consciousness' as such to be 'volitional consciousness', that is, what humans have.....

However, there's a further to this - it is also true that "consciousness is identity" in reference to perceptual conscious - except it is implicit - and that while there may be awareness of it, it is not known until one has conceptual consciousness to know it...
remember, she spoke of the infant/child as possessing 'implicit' - recognising that it was not a knowable until it was consciously identified as such....

Post 26

Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 7:46pm

Robert:
Agreed.
LLAP
J:D

Post 27

Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 2:14am

Robert:
Agreed.
LLAP
Ed

Post 28

Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 11:27pm

I think of it as 1) For humans, communicable identification relies on conceptual, volitional, and attentional consciousness and 2) Basic conceptual identification relies on core consciousness, and 3) A level of human self-consciousness (self-awareness) allows for the same level of human self-identity. For 3, it's like: The more you are aware of yourself, the more you know who/what you are.

This is the closest I can get to understanding this without writing a book and linking articles. Of course, when I talk about consciousness in detail, I think of it in terms of aspects such as "higher levels", "core", "self", "attentional", "volitional", etc.

Post 29

Sunday, September 21, 2008 - 10:50pm

This is an article that should be brought out and reread at least once a year. I say that even though I disagree with a number of points. Excellent approach and fresh ideas!

Post 30

Monday, September 22, 2008 - 5:54am

On what points do you disagree?

Post 31

Monday, September 22, 2008 - 7:25am

Steve,

Thank you very much for bringing this article back out for review. Absolutely excellent article. And Barry, if you still look at these threads, thank you!

jt

Post 32

Saturday, July 23, 2011 - 5:32am