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Post 20

Tuesday, November 1, 2005 - 9:19amSanction this postReply
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Robert, I'm confused.

What's there to trash in this thing - or why isn't this article trashing anything?

Joking aside, Glenn, that was a beautiful tribute to the sense of life found in Rand's writing. I look for this often and I find it there.

It is a breath of fresh air to see others find it also.

A really good find, Robert.

Michael


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Post 21

Tuesday, November 1, 2005 - 11:08amSanction this postReply
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I recall that in some article about a fiction work, Rand referred to the characters speaking a "beautiful, stylized dialogue" -- the kind, she added, that people should speak in real life, but rarely do.

That captures the essence of what I believe the author of this post was driving at.

I gave a talk some years ago titled "Romanticism in Everyday Life," which dealt at length with this topic -- about the spiritual importance of stylizing one's life and actions, about creating and adding meaning to mundane tasks and routines. It is all about taking an artist's view of one's daily life: about approaching the details of everyday life just as one would a work of art, shaping and polishing that work according to standards at once aesthetic and ethical, standards which might be summarily characterized as representing "the best within us."

Of all that I associate with Ayn Rand, no single idea captures her essence more closely than this stylized -- call it "Romanticized" -- approach to living. It's what I believe that she meant when she described the "essence" of her philosophy as "Man as a heroic being."

Yet this central, core, essential aspect of Ayn Rand's outlook and spirit does not get remotely the attention that other, far more derivative aspects of her philosophy do. And it pains me when I encounter self-described Objectivists who appear to have memorized her entire system and who can regurgitate any aspect of it in a heartbeat, but who do not seem to embody, or perhaps even be aware of, that essence. I must say that for all that I gain intellectually from my encounters with Objectivists, I rarely gain as much as I'd like to spiritually. And I think that has to do with the fact that too few Objectivists seem to share that uniquely Randian outlook, and her Romantic values.

Part of my growing reluctance in recent weeks to continue to read and post much on SOLO has centered around this issue. For all the talk here of "the total passion for the total height," I have seen a great deal of passion, but not much height. Foul language, dirty jokes, ad hominems, and angry outbursts do not represent "total passion for the total height," simply because such effusions may be expressed in forceful language. In any case, "romantic" and "heroic" are not words that immediately come to mind.

That's why I liked this post on style so much. Its author reminds us of a wonderful model of class, grace, elegance, and positive, uplifting passion: Rand's incomparable fictional character, Francisco d'Anconia (who is also my personal favorite).

A thought:

I wonder what SOLO might look like -- and, by extension, what a model of Objectivism it might provide to the world -- if those posting here were to pause ten seconds before typing, think of the character of Francisco d'Anconia, and then ask themselves:

Would someone like Francisco want to read these words?

And, in considering their daily lives, they might also ask:

Would someone like Francisco care to keep my company?
(Edited by Robert Bidinotto
on 11/01, 11:46am)


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Post 22

Tuesday, November 1, 2005 - 11:21amSanction this postReply
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Robert,

Bravo! I recall Nathaniel Branden writing something about taking responsibility for what we give significance and importance to in life. Focusing on the metaphysically important and emphasizing the benevolent universe premise are core, life-affirming tenets bequeathed to us by Ayn Rand.  

Jim


Post 23

Tuesday, November 1, 2005 - 11:25amSanction this postReply
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Well said, Robert - as with you [and perhaps most others, really], Francisco was my favorite, an obvious model of the way life could and ought to be, stylewise at least...

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Post 24

Tuesday, November 1, 2005 - 12:34pmSanction this postReply
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Here we go again. Sigh. Sir Robert, with all due respect, your post is churlish in its SOLO-swiping. SOLO is not the posters on SOLOHQ. SOLO is its "founding documents," one of which is a speech you heard me deliver at TOC-Vancouver. SOLO is its Credo. SOLO is the sense-of-life articles in particular, one of which is Stylised Life, to which visitors are referred on the homepage they see before signing up. SOLO is the daily articles, aside from the odd stinker that slips through. SOLO is the spirit of unimpeded debate among people who agree & disagree in good faith, even though we get bad-faith arguers sometimes. SOLO is indeed the spirit of Francisco, as you will see explained in my Why SOLO? Yes, I daresay some of us fall short of the total height sometimes. I wonder if you would regard calling the author of a book a "parasite" without having read it, as you did here, as an example of the "romanticised" behaviour you properly laud?

I don't want to get into a "pissing contest" about this, & I am very busy on FreeRad—you know what that's like—but I wish to register my protest at this ongoing campaign of carping against the best Objectivist web site there is & its father-organisation. And yes, I know it's not "perfect." Sigh, again.

Linz

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Post 25

Tuesday, November 1, 2005 - 1:04pmSanction this postReply
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Robert B,

(Sidestepping the discussion entirely of SOLO and focusing on the core of your post...)

I wish I could sanction that ten or fifty times.

Jeff


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Post 26

Wednesday, November 2, 2005 - 10:28amSanction this postReply
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> SOLO is its Credo. SOLO is the sense-of-life articles in particular...SOLO is the daily articles, aside from the odd stinker that slips through. SOLO is the spirit of unimpeded debate

Linz, I don't think those of us who have made critical posts about "Solo" are referring to the above. It's more the posters, or a major segment of them, and what they are focused on and in what form. (They are "Solo" too.) What the leadership's -ideals- are as you stated above I agree with. (Bidibob can speak for himself, but I'm pretty sure he would say the same.)

And I would like to thank you for what you wish to achieve.

Why can't I criticise you or other leaders or tell you that I think you are not there yet without you exploding in outrage or considering me an enemy?

Phil

PS, I agree with Bidinotto that people should focus more on positive topics and the joyful aspects of living - I tend to be too much of a critic and to see the glass as half full myself, so I should work on that. I probably just need to find the right woman and the world will seem brighter :-)



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Post 27

Wednesday, November 2, 2005 - 1:25pmSanction this postReply
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Philip,

You wrote:
I probably just need to find the right woman and the world will seem brighter :-)
Yep. It does.

Michael


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Post 28

Thursday, November 3, 2005 - 7:00amSanction this postReply
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Linz,
Yes, I daresay some of us fall short of the total height sometimes.
Exactly.  Furthermore, no one reaches that height unless he gets up on his own two feet to do so.  Robert B. rightly says that Objectivism should inspire us to do so and live the heroic life.  What he (and Phil C.) get wrong is the idea that you and Joe Rowlands can do anything more than provide a free speech forum dedicated to the heroic creed that is Objectivism where each of us can decide individually whether or not to be heroic.

What they both apparently miss completely is the remarkable thing you and Joe have accomplished here.  The two of you make your case for a passionate (or as Robert B. might put it, "spiritual") Objectivism, and then you let the rest of us hash it out, only occasionally bringing in the bouncers.  That is Objectivism in action!  It is a microcosm of what an Objectivist society would like look.  It has the good (the rational and the heroic), the bad (a few frauds, poseurs, and ax-grinders), and the ugly (the mud-slinging, the messy business of forming ideas, and all those diamonds in the rough).

That is the beauty of SOLO and of Objectivism.  It's like that old saw about how everyone loves those tasty sausages, but no one wants to see how they're made.  SOLO is a process that produces a lot of fruit.  Sterilize that process with the uber-seriousness of Robert B. or the primacy of civility edicts of Phil C. and SOLO would soon become just another dead Objectivist world.

Andy


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Post 29

Thursday, November 3, 2005 - 1:01pmSanction this postReply
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[I have withdrawn this post, with apologies to Andy Postema. See below in this thread.]
(Edited by Robert Bidinotto
on 11/04, 8:15am)


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Post 30

Thursday, November 3, 2005 - 2:25pmSanction this postReply
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Robert B.,
Given the ad hominem ugliness transpiring on this site between you and Mr. Reed, I don't wonder that you regard seriousness and civility as "sterilizing" and "dead," or that you equate a barroom brawl atmosphere with "Objectivism in action!"
Use care in your accusations against me.  I have made my position publicly known that I oppose the use of Objectivism to rationalize the pedophilia agenda.  I have further stated that Reed is a proponent of that agenda and I put forth a list of ten facts (none of which he denied except to say that the child porn in his possession was simulated child porn).  Anyone capable of clear thinking knows that is not an ad hominem attack.  Those facts are the foundation of my argument against Reed's agenda.

Furthermore, anyone who values Objectivism will take a stand against those who try to pervert the philosophy to break down the ethical and legal barriers to child-adult sexual relationships.  Not many of us here will disagree with me on this.  Of course the problem always comes when the issue must move from the pristine statement of principles to their application.  I've done this regarding Reed, and it is an ugly business.  How else would you go about outting a person using Objectivism to justify the exploitation of children?

I don't think Ayn Rand promised living the Objectivist life would be a rose garden.  Even if it were, you still have to get your hands dirty to weed it.

Andy


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Post 31

Thursday, November 3, 2005 - 6:58pmSanction this postReply
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Andy, I really don't want to get into the details of this on this thread but I think you should define something for us.

What exactly is this "simulated child porn" that you keep refering to and what is bad about it?   Maybe you can answer this on another thread.

 - Jason

(Edited by Jason Quintana on 11/03, 6:59pm)


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Post 32

Friday, November 4, 2005 - 7:31amSanction this postReply
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Jason,

Simulated child pornography is pornography in which adults who look like children engage in sex with each other or adults.  Reed admitted to having child porn files on his computer (but claims that the Mafia put them there to frame him) and to have twelve boxes of pornography that were certified as having only adults pictured -- in other words, simulated child pornography.

You ask what is wrong with simulated child pornography.  That's not the right question.  You should ask what is wrong the person who is sexually excited by simulated child pornography.  Once you consider the answer to that question, you might wonder why that person advocates the abolition of age of consent laws and the emancipation of children from parents who would prohibit them from engaging in adult-child sexual relationships.

Andy


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Post 33

Friday, November 4, 2005 - 8:09amSanction this postReply
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An apology to Andy: I want to withdraw my post #29, which was written in haste and anger -- always a stupid combination.

While I believe Andy went too far in personal comments in posts on another thread, I should not have reacted so heatedly to his rather mild personal criticism here, nor imported the context of that other thread into this one.

Please consider my comments in #29 expunged.

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Post 34

Friday, November 4, 2005 - 2:00pmSanction this postReply
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I dunno, Andy. I've read so much of this mess that the various forms of "evidence", and attack-counters are just a big, shitty blur to me at this point.

I suppose I could go back and "review" all the "evidence" as if it were an actual "case" and then hold forth semi-informed statements. I do know a couple of basics.

1. Our thoughts are our thoughts, and we've all had full-spectrum ones. Sometimes those involve media entertainment tools, to which the market is glad to respond. Have you ever imagined a possibility that you wouldn't execute? Don't lie to yourself, be careful. The point being, as far as what I see, any legal things with Adam Reed were already handled by the system, and he is not under indictment for anythng further. So he might like pictures, big fucking whip. Me too, sometimes, but they're not of the pallette that you say he has. Sounds like vigilante activity you're up to, and here, of all places. Of course, I suppose you could say that you find him to be such a perceived threat that it doesn't matter where you announce it, no? That puts you in the who died and made you Elvis category, or some kind of whistleblower, or Chicken Little, or something, I do not know what. I know that the Salem witch trials could justified enough for some good action.

2. If I were you I'd look into the libel and slander/ defamation laws. Of course, usually we can fire at will, knowing that to defend the supposed pervert would have to make an unrealistic expenditure to track down and charge his opponent, and that is truly something to count on, it usually keeps you safe because you're potentially attacking someone where it really hurts, their wallet. On the other hand, he might get pissed off enough to suprise you.

I don't get your vendetta. Why do you really hate the guy so much to resort to this? I don't think much of him one way or the other, I know he's a good writer and puts out pretty decent content. What's the real reason? Why does he blow you up to 90 like this? What's with this moral imperative?


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Post 35

Friday, November 4, 2005 - 4:36pmSanction this postReply
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Rich - just let it be, will you? Robert has very graciously apologised to Andy. Adam & Halina are talking privately. You're just stirring. Give it a miss.

Linz

Post 36

Friday, November 4, 2005 - 9:02pmSanction this postReply
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Linz,

What you said.

Rich,

I thank you, but I'm not going there. I learned the hard way that there are people not worth giving attention to. I should have learned more from The Fountainhead the first hundred or so times that I read it.


Post 37

Saturday, November 5, 2005 - 7:47amSanction this postReply
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Linz,

Yes, Robert B. has been gracious.  I have communicated with him privately to express my appreciation.

Andy


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Post 38

Saturday, November 5, 2005 - 8:09amSanction this postReply
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Rich,
I don't get your vendetta. Why do you really hate the guy so much to resort to this? I don't think much of him one way or the other, I know he's a good writer and puts out pretty decent content. What's the real reason? Why does he blow you up to 90 like this? What's with this moral imperative?
Your problem is a persistant one.  It's the same as MSK, Sarah, and some others around here.  You deny me the justice of giving plain meaning to what I write.  I do not write recklessly.  I say what I mean.  Sometimes outspokenly, sometimes with subtlety - but always in plain English.

If you gave me the justice I am entitled to, you would know I am not engaged in a vendetta.  You would also know the moral imperative is the opposition to the perversion of Objectivism to rationalize adult-child sexual relationships.  If we don't oppose that, we shouldn't be surprised if outsiders come to believe Ayn Rand's philosophy of the heroic nature of man is nothing but a creed for moral monsters.  Without regard to the integrity of Objectivism, Reed's agenda is vile, period.

If you want to eat Reed's shit to get a pat on the head from him and the make-nice brigade, go ahead and do it.  Give him the comfort he needs to ply his agenda without fear of having to confront not-nice opposition.  Follow the path that makes so many nice guys moral ciphers.

Andy


Post 39

Saturday, November 5, 2005 - 8:26amSanction this postReply
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Rich,

Now let me clear up your cluelessness about the law.

[1] You suggest you cannot draw any adverse conclusions about Reed, but the justice system has had its say.  You're a proper little statist, aren't you?  Since when is a person obligated to surrender the faculty of his reason to the dictates of the state?  Sure, I cannot call O.J. Simpson a felon because the state incompetently failed to convict him of a double homicide, but I would be a fool to not judge him a murderer.

[2] As for defamation, either you have joined Reed's camp to intimidate me into silence or you are completely ignorant of the law and the facts of this particular matter.  Defamation is the false and injurious statement of fact about another.  I cannot defame someone by stating what he has said about himself.  I cannot defame someone by stating my opinion of him.  I cannot defame someone my stating my belief about who he is or what he may have done.  You see, there's this thing called free speech, which allows us to declare our opinions and beliefs without fear of legal retribution.

You can now go back to making your bones with the pedophilia-pushers.

Andy


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