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Post 20

Friday, November 22, 2002 - 1:57pmSanction this postReply
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Per,

I'm not exactly sure how to proceed with this thread. You say that people who take the word "objectivism" to mean something even slightly different than what you take it to mean are being dishonest, then you make an analogy comparing them to thieves. In short, you're calling us dishonest thieves. Are you interested in what dishonest thieves have to say on this topic? If so, I wonder why; if not I wonder why you bother to post here...

I agree with you that it's important that people are honest about the use of the word "Objectivism". I think I understand the mistake that you're making, and it's an honest mistake, so let me try one more time to explain why I think your interpretation is wrong.

First, Ayn Rand said that Objectivism is the name that she gave to her philosophy. We clearly agree that a philosophy is not simply everything that a person ever said or wrote, because I brought up an example of something and you said that that's not part of her philosophy; it's part of her psychology. We must ask, what did she mean by her philosophy?

She wrote, "Philosophy studies the fundamental nature of existence, of man, and of man's relationship to existence." (PWNI 2) So if something that she wrote deals with the fundamental nature of man, for example, it would seem that she intended it to be part of Objectivism. (The woman president example seems to fall into this category, but that's not really important.)

So, what's fundamental and what's not? She talked about the "rule of fundamentality" as "the process of determining an essential characteristic ... When a given group of existents has more than one characteristic distinguishing it from other existents, man must observe the relationships among these various characteristics and discover the one on which all the others (or the greatest number of others) depend." (ITOE 59)

From this, I take it that Objectivism is the essential and defining characteristics of what Ayn Rand had to say on existence, man, and man's relationship to existence. And it's not the case that I'm dishonestly trying to steal Objectivism from Ayn Rand by using her own words against her. I think that this is what she meant.

When you say something to the effect of, "You are using the word 'Objectivism' wrong, Objectivism is what Ayn Rand said it was and nothing else," you are only pushing the problem back a step, because I agree with you that Objectivism is what Ayn Rand said it was (not everything she said or every bit of philosophy she ever said.) This is your mistake: not recognizing that a philosophy is not merely a hodgepodge, but an integrated system; and it is integrated along fundamental, essential principles. These principles are what's important. Afterall, preceeding the phrase you quoted, she wrote, "I urge the readers to use their own judgment as to whether a particular article is or is not consonant with Objectivist principles. Remember, it is a fundamental tenet of Objectivism that one must not accept ideas on faith."

Post 21

Friday, November 22, 2002 - 2:31pmSanction this postReply
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Dear Per:

St Peter was said to have stated: "Upon this Rock I will build my Church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it." Today we have St. Peter's and the Vatican:)

Sound familiar? It should. A religion grew out of that idea. It's not so far fetched to think that what you are stating here is that no one has the right to contradict the infallibility, the inscrutible truth, and the absolute ownership of a philosophy such as Objectivism. This is utter nonsense! It will cause your religion to ossify and die out for lack of fresh nutritious ideas and applications. I hope yours does!

If Objectivism has no force today, it is because of people who act and snob others the way you do. Instead of thinking about what REALLY matters and contributing to the world you live in, you are worried about whether or not people are conforming to St Ayn Rand's strict convent orders. You make Objectivism a laughing stock for people who take ideas seriously. In fact you are no better than those trolls who pop up here regularly to spout the latest bits of postmodern nihilism and contradict fundamental axioms or trivialize the basics of logic.

SOLO doesn't need your reprimands or advice on how to read the mind of Rand, or Atlas Shrugged. You, trying to shove your dogmatism down people's throats will only create animosity and cast the shadow of your cloak across the lights that are kindling in growing minds. Please go back to ARI and tell them you have been snobbed by SOLO people. It will be associations like SOLO that will win the day for Objectivism!!

BTW: The question of a woman president does not belong to the domain of psychology. It is properly an ethical-political matter. It's about doing something, being an activist, not sitting around til the cows come home wondering or thinking about whether you shoulda coulda mighta oughta.

Post 22

Friday, November 22, 2002 - 4:14pmSanction this postReply
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I don't usually do this, but Jeff, that is a brillant reply. I am keeping that one.

Post 23

Saturday, November 23, 2002 - 12:14amSanction this postReply
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Wow - thanks!

Post 24

Saturday, November 23, 2002 - 1:06pmSanction this postReply
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Per,

You are a professional fraud! What you say is so ridiculous I have never seen such stupidity in my life from someone who professes to be an Objectivist. I wish you the best, go back to ARI you deserve them and they deserve you. You are in the wrong territory here. I never went to your website to declare you a fraud, you came here. Why do you waste your time responding to us if you know that Rand would never want you to do that? Why do you pursue people in this way? You are no better than a popish nave.

I see you have no interest in being anything more than a troll, so instead of wishing you "good bye and Good premises" like Rand used to say, it's just...

Good bye and good riddance!

Post 25

Saturday, November 23, 2002 - 2:55pmSanction this postReply
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Like I said, "what the originator of the term" thinks it means is irrelevant, unless one does not follow Objectivist concept-formation and general accepted procedure about ideologies. Ayn Rand's words have no authority on me or anyone else.

I know that for a Randian this is difficult to understand, but these "dishonest thieves" are not binded to the same doctrine than you are. Can you extend your mind enough to encompass that ? Or are you just going to recriminate again and again that we should follow your cult ?

Post 26

Saturday, November 23, 2002 - 3:43pmSanction this postReply
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Per,

It's funny how you can respond to parts of my post without responding or acknowledging what I was saying. Let me be more blunt.

You, sir, are the one who is using the word "Objectivism" to mean something other than what Ayn Rand said it was. You are taking everything philosophical that she said while ignoring the fundamental integrating principles. You are being highly concrete bound and ignoring the method by which the concretes were derived and fit together. You and many other ARI people are the dishonest thieves who have turned a glorious life-affirming philosophy based on reason, independence, and objectivity and turned it into a cult-like religion demanding 100% conformity. Your and the ARI's bastardization of Objectivism is an abomination.

Post 27

Saturday, November 23, 2002 - 5:18amSanction this postReply
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Q. SOLO doesn't need your reprimands or advice on how to read the mind of Rand, or Atlas Shrugged.

Per: I am not trying to make you read her mind, I am trying to make you read her words. And let me give the full quote this time: «If you wonder why I am so particular about protecting the integrity of the term «Objectivism», my reason is that «Objectivism» is the name I have given to my philosophy - therefore, anyone using that name for some philosophical hodepodge of his own, without my knnowledge or consent, is gulity of the fraudulent presumption of trying to put thoughts into my brain...» .

Someone who agrees with some of, or most of Objectivism, but who does not accept all of it, or wants to «improve» Objectivism by creating a system with, say, 95% Objectivism and 5% «improvementes», is not an Objectivist, but a Randian.

However, I am not saying that Objectivism contains everything that is true in philosophy, but Objectivism is the philosophical system contained in the works Ayn Rand wrote or endorsed. I will say that truths in philosophy are either part of Objectivism, or consistent with Objectivsim.

Ayn Rand´s philosophy is a closed system, Immanuel Kant´s philosophy is a closed system, Plato´s philosophy is a closed system - these systems closed when the author died. But Platonism is open, Kantianism is open. Therefore, Randianism is open, but Objectivism is closed.

This distinction is important, and look what Kelley does in «Truth and Toleration». He talkes about Platonism and Aristotelianism and Kantianism as open systems, which is true. If he then had said that Randianism is open, he would of course have been correct. But he switched from Randianism to Ayn Rands philosophy (= Objectivism), and claimed that Objectivism is open. This of course is incorrect.

Q: You say that people who take the word "objectivism" to mean something even slightly different than what you take it to mean...

Per: No, I am talking about people who take Objectivism to mean someting different from what Ayn Rand took it to mean.

Q: ....are being dishonest, then you make an analogy comparing them to thieves. In short, you're calling us dishonest thieves.

Per: Yes.

Q: Are you interested in what dishonest thieves have to say on this topic?

Per: Yes.

Q: First, Ayn Rand said that Objectivism is the name that she gave to her philosophy. ...........We must ask, what did she mean by her philosophy?

Per: You are equivocating here. Philosophy can mean a whole subject or a field of study, and it can mean a delimited part of this field.

Q: ...fundamental, essential principles. These principles are what's important. Afterall, preceeding the phrase you quoted, she wrote, "I urge the readers to use their own judgment as to whether a particular article is or is not consonant with Objectivist principles.

Per: Exactly!. She said «consonant with Objectivist principles», she did not say «part of Objectivism».

But, why are you guys so eager to use Objectivism as a name of something that is different from the meaning the originator of the term intended? (If you can find errors in Objectivism, you have a point, of course.) Some people want to use this term because it makes marketing of their own books and conferences easier, but why do you want to use a name intended for something else to describe your views? Why it it not enough for you to follow the historical tradition and call yourself Randians?

Post 28

Sunday, November 24, 2002 - 5:35amSanction this postReply
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Let me make one final point. Ayn Rand wrote: «If you wonder why I am so particular about protecting the integrity of the term «Objectivism»,...».

Her point is the integrity of Objectivism. If Objectivism is an open system, as you claim, then lots of different views will come to be included in the term Objectivism.

A few examples: Murray Franck supports compulsory taxation. while on the other hand, George H. Smith, is an anarchist (as was Roy Childs, until he came to his senses). All of these have been described as Objectivists. I have even seen Murray Rothbard described as an Objectivist.

David Kelley supports the mind-body-dicotomy («Soviet tyrants are not evil because they believe in Marxian collectivism. They are evil because they have murdered millions of people..».) He is by some described as an Objectivist.

Thouroughly dishonest people like the Brandens (check out http://www.escapingamerica.com/e_rand1_1.htm) are also sometimes described as Objectivists.

If Objectivism is opened up, anarchism, forced taxation, mind-body-dicotomy and dishonesty seem to be parts of Objectivism.

You do not see any problem with this?

Let me conclude with the following: Thank you so much for showing what the virtues of benevolence and toleration really means, and for practising Kelley´s dictum «Let us welcome dissent».

Regards
Per Hansen

Post 29

Monday, November 25, 2002 - 8:17amSanction this postReply
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So what is your point Per? Do you have a point? Are you making your own point or simply reiterating the stupidity you voiced above? You are making points for ARI, good grief.

I actually spoke to someone this weekend who knew you from an IHS seminar (I think in Aix en Provence), if I'm not mistaken. The person (who will remain anonymous) said that you were quite a decent fellow. I can't imagine why you are busy bodying around here trying to tear apart the Brandens or TOC by countering them with accusations of falsehoods. I really feel quite bad that your position is so dogmatic, I wish you would be more open.

Post 30

Monday, November 25, 2002 - 1:27pmSanction this postReply
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"If Objectivism is opened up, anarchism, forced taxation, mind-body-dicotomy and dishonesty seem to be parts of Objectivism."

LOL !

Talk about not understanding Objectivism. It's ironic how Randians seem to be the people who LEAST understand what Objectivism is all about.

I would like anyone to try to demonstrate how anarchism, taxation, dualism and dishonesty are part of Objectivism by any definition ! Are you up to it, Mr. Hansen ? Or are you simply sprouting ARI dogma ?

Post 31

Monday, November 25, 2002 - 11:41pmSanction this postReply
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Anthony asks: "So what is your point Per? Do you have a point?"

The point is the following: ARI has been critizised for boycotting some writers/researchers. My point was to show that ARI boyctts, and rightly so, people who claim that Objectivism is not what Ayn Rand claimed it was, but something else.

If someone is knowledgeable about Objectivism, and claims that Objectivism is an open system (in the same way that, say, Platonism is an open system), he is dishonest. The point of ARIs boycott, then, is to avoid dealing with dishonest people. For more detalis, see above.

Anthony: "I actually spoke to someone this weekend who knew you from an IHS seminar".

This could not have been me. I have never attended one.

Post 32

Monday, November 25, 2002 - 11:51pmSanction this postReply
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Francois: "I would like anyone to try to demonstrate how anarchism, taxation, dualism and dishonesty are part of Objectivism by any definition".

Le me take only one of these: Sciabarra claimed that Murray Franck, who supports forced taxation, is an Objectivist.

With this, Sciabarra says that forced taxation is consistent with Objectivism. You should then ask him to demonstrate how this is consistent with Objectivism.

Or, does Sciabarra mean that people who support important philosophical/political that are inconsistent with Objectivism, still can be Objectivsts?

Post 33

Tuesday, November 26, 2002 - 9:48pmSanction this postReply
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Per,

Thank you for making your points. You conclude then that 1) ARI does not want association with dishonest people who claim they are Objectivists and indeed are not Objectivists by any stretch of the imagination (right?), and 2) Objectivism is a closed system.

First, can you explain your own association with us by your posting here? Don't get me wrong, you are welcome here. Please explain why you post here if you know that we are dishonest?

Secondly, can Ayn Rand's philosophy not have a life beyond her? Are her ideas not open to interpretation or application? Please, I really want to understand, and I think Sciabarra and many others would like to know as well what is so wrong with this.

As far as Aix-en-Provence and IHS, I am sure that I heard that correctly. Try to remember.

Anthony

Post 34

Tuesday, November 26, 2002 - 11:52pmSanction this postReply
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AT: You conclude then that 1) ARI does not want association with dishonest people who claim they are Objectivists and indeed are not Objectivists by any stretch of the imagination (right?), and 2) Objectivism is a closed system.

Per: Yes.

AT: First, can you explain your own association with us by your posting here? Don't get me wrong, you are welcome here. Please explain why you post here if you know that we are dishonest?

Per: I heve never meant that everybody here are dishonest, some of you are only in error. If one only reads Kelley et al, and not very carefully, one could easily miss that fact that his point (about philosophical systems being open) is valid only if he had talked about Randianism, but his point is not valid when he talked about Objectivism. (Platonism is open, Plato’s philosophy is closed. Randianism is open, Rand’s philosophy (=Objectivism) is closed).

Some of the people here are in error, and my hope was to reach them.

I would not say that I associate with you in any improper way by posting here, in this open forum. This forum, as I see it, is similar to HPO, which is also open. As you know both Objectivists and people associated with TOC post there.

But I would not give money or lectures to TOC, that would be improper. But I could give a lecture to ARS (not that they would ask me to), or to most political parties.

And, thanks for the welcome.

AT: Secondly, can Ayn Rand's philosophy not have a life beyond her?

Per: What do you mean by life?

AT: Are her ideas not open to interpretation or application?

Per: Of course her ideas are valid and proper subjects for interpretation, application, discussion and elaboration. (Does anyone here reelly belive that anyone associated with ARI disagrees with what I just said?) But new ideas - even ideas consistent with Objectivism – are not part of Objectivism. This is the important point. New developments and applications etc. are welcome. But they are developments and applications of Objectivism, they are (I assume) valid and they are true, but they are not parts of Objectivism. “Objectivism” is not a synonym for everything that is true in philosophy.

AT: Please, I really want to understand, and I think Sciabarra and many others would like to know as well what is so wrong with this.

Per: I would love to hear what Sciabarra has to say about my points. (And I am convinced they are not new to him.) I would also like to know why he said that Murray Franck, a supporter of forced taxation, is an Objectivist. Does anybody else here agree with Sciabarra on this point?

AT: As far as Aix-en-Provence and IHS, I am sure that I heard that correctly. Try to remember.

Per: This must have been some other guy with the same name, my name it is not uncommon in Norway. I have never been to France. I am sure I would have remembered if I had been there.

Post 35

Wednesday, November 27, 2002 - 7:48amSanction this postReply
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Per,

What you have written takes a lot of time to digest. That is, I feel like I have no right to call myself an Objectivist (which I do not do anyway so you can feel relieved). I have another question for you. I want to avoid the apologetics because I don't feel that it is necessary to defend Kelley and Sciabarra. I will say one thing though. To call them dishonest is a huge leap. I think it is rather dishonest to deny these men their claims to at least a voice within Objectivism since they are both intimately tied into the movement, and have provided enormous scholarly contributions to Objectivism. That is a matter for further discussion, perhaps not here.

I want to discuss the topic of applying Objectivism. Are you saying that it is correct to apply Objectivism to the comparative study of other philosophies or philosophers? I think you are saying that as long as one provides a disclaimer stating "these other philosophers are not Objectivists. Although they may seem to hold very similar ideas they cannot be considered Objectivists." Is that right? Are we safe from moral reprehension and admonishment (from ARI) if we always state clearly that Sciabarra, Kelley, Branden, Binswanger, Peikoff, Khamy/Torres, Mayhew, Schwartz, Gladstein, etc. are not Objectivists per se since it is a closed system? I guess what I am understanding is that Objectivism is a closed system because given: "feu" Ayn Rand, there is only Randianism? Therefore, I think by extension, your position would either state that heir Peikoff is just as Randian as everyone else, right? His legal connection to the estate does not give him or anyone else the right to add or subtract one jot or tiddle to/from the original material. Right? If editing were to occur in a reprint and some words were to be dropped from the original, thus altering an original monograph or other document, would this be an action subject to moral reprehension?

That is a lot to digest. Thank you for the time you might take to formulate an answer.

Post 36

Wednesday, November 27, 2002 - 2:16pmSanction this postReply
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Hello Per

Many of us accept that there's a need to protect the integrity of what Ayn Rand herself said and wrote. In fact, we do this all the time in debate with people who despise Ayn Rand and who make absurd claims about what she said or wrote (such as the false claim that Ayn Rand's ideas lead to fascism). We make a point not only of challenging such people to find evidence for their claims, but also of presenting Ayn Rand in her own words.

Does ARI in fact protect Ayn Rand's own words? Well, Dr Sciabarra has presented a strong case that ARI has actually done the opposite i.e. changed Ayn Rand's own words beyond grammatical necessity to alter the meaning in some cases. Do you think Dr Sciabarra is mistaken? Do you think his argument is reasonable or unreasonable?

With respect to your distinction between "objectivism" and "Randism" you seem to be using the term "Randian" with a meaning that is precisely the opposite of that of many other commentators. Many writers tend to use the word “Randian” to refer to people who are cultish followers of Ayn Rand. They often use the word pejoratively, implying that a Randian is a person who accepts everything Ayn Rand wrote and who is unwilling to accept any deviation from positions that are authoritatively sanctioned by Ayn Rand's legal heirs. Whereas, you seem to use the word “Randian” to designate a person whose philosophy shares certain fundamental characteristics with objectivism. But I understand why you opt for this use.

Compare these philosophers and philosophies:

Aristotle -- Aristotelianism
Plato -- Platonism
Marx -- Marxism

Notice that an Aristotelian is not a person who accepts everything that Aristotle wrote, but a person whose philosophy shares certain fundamental characteristics with the philosophy of Aristotle. Likewise, Aristotelianism does not mean everything Aristotle wrote but rather an abstract philosophical approach (of which objectivism is an example).

Similarly, a Platonist’s philosophy shares certain fundamental characteristics with the philosophy of Plato. And a Marxist’s philosophy shares certain fundamental characteristics with the philosophy of Marx.

If we follow this pattern then I might agree with you that a “Randian” ought to designate a person whose philosophy shares certain fundamental characteristics with the philosophy of Ayn Rand. But, as I pointed out above, that is not how people tend to use the words, “Randian” and “Randism”.

More importantly, since Ayn Rand gave her philosophy a name, it doesn’t make sense to follow the pattern of designating as a “Randian” a thinker whose philosophy shares certain fundamental characteristics with objectivism. Is there a precedent for interpreting a philosophical tradition in this manner? Compare these philosophers and philosophies:

Descartes -- Rationalism (Not Descartism)
Leibniz -- Rationalism (Not Leibnizism)
Spinoza -- Rationalism (Not Spinozism)

Berkeley -- Empiricism (Not Berkeleyism)
Hume -- Empiricism (Not Humism)
Locke -- Empiricism (Not Lockism)

Heidegger -- Existentialism (Not Heideggerism)
Kierkegaard -- Existentialism (Not Kierkegaardism)
Sartre -- Existentialism (Not Sartrism)
Camus -- Existentialism (Not Camusism)

Here, different thinkers are regarded as rationalists, empiricists or existentialists despite significant differences in their philosophies. They are classified as rationalists, empiricists or existentialists because they share certain fundamental characteristics.

Ayn Rand gave her philosophy a distinctive name in order to differentiate it from: rationalism; empiricism; subjectivism; intrinsicism; etc. In other words, “objectivism” is not simply a closed set of philosophical propositions, but the term for a philosophical position which is distinct from rationalism, empiricism, subjectivism, intrinsicism, etc.

Does the fact that Ayn Rand herself named her philosophy mean that the word “objectivism” is a proper noun? No, a word is not a proper noun by virtue of its origin or its originator’s intention; a word is a proper noun by virtue of its function. Proper nouns designate particular objects uniquely (i.e. they are definite): individual people or pets, particular buildings (not kinds of buildings), individual rivers (not rivers as such), particular countries (not the concept of “country”), etc.

In contrast, a philosophy is a system of abstract propositions; it is articulated through articles and essays spread throughout multiple volumes; and it is open to interpretation (especially with regard to whether any one particular statement represents an early, imprecise expression of a fundamental principle, or a later, mature expression). For these -- and other reasons -- philosophical positions such as rationalism, empiricism -- and objectivism -- are concepts not proper nouns.

Even if you wanted to use “Objectivism” to designate a limited list of essays that Ayn Rand herself wrote (or that she endorsed) -- a position which defies both common sense and rational epistemology -- the necessity for interpretation and a culture of scholarship remains.

ARI’s culture of excommunication may be compatible with Ayn Rand’s personality, but it is not compatible with objectivism. But their treating objectivism as dogma is compatible with neither Ayn Rand’s personality nor with her philosophy.

Post 37

Wednesday, November 27, 2002 - 8:52pmSanction this postReply
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Barry,

Excellent razor sharp focus on a very complex issue. I, for one, would love to see this aspect of partisanship presented as an article.

Michael

Post 38

Wednesday, November 27, 2002 - 11:11pmSanction this postReply
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Thank you, Anthony and Barry. I will give my reply shortly.

Regards
Per Hansen

Post 39

Thursday, November 28, 2002 - 12:42amSanction this postReply
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Anthony: I think it is rather dishonest to deny Kelley and Sciabarra their claims to at least a voice within Objectivism”

Per: I am not denying anyone a voice. I am just saying that the material Kelley and Scaibarra write is not part of Objectivism, and that they are dishonest if they claim that it is.

Anthony: ...Are we safe from moral reprehension and admonishment (from ARI) if we always state clearly that Sciabarra, Kelley, Branden, Binswanger, Peikoff, Khamy/Torres, Mayhew, Schwartz, Gladstein, etc. are not Objectivists per se since it is a closed system?

Per: An Objectivist is someone who agrees with Objectivism. Peikoff does, Kelley does not. Peikoff says that OPAR is not part of the Objectivist litterature, Kelley says that Unrugged Individualism is part of the Objectivist litterature. Then, Peikoff is an Objectivist, Kelley is not.

Objectivists can of course write about anything, and they do, but an Objectivist does not claim that the philosophical material he writes is part of Objectivism. Doing this is presenting one’s own views as if they were Ayn Rands, and this is dishonest.

Anthony: I guess what I am understanding is that Objectivism is a closed system because given: "feu" Ayn Rand, there is only Randianism? Therefore, I think by extension, your position would either state that heir Peikoff is just as Randian as everyone else, right?

Per: One can say this – a Randian is any philosopher who is influnced by Ayn Rand. But Peikoff agrees with Objectivism, and is then also an Objectivist. Kelley is only a Randian, not an Objectivist.

Anthony: Peikoff legal connection to the estate does not give him or anyone else the right to add or subtract one jot or tiddle to/from the original material. Right? If editing were to occur in a reprint and some words were to be dropped from the original, thus altering an original monograph or other document, would this be an action subject to moral reprehension?

Per: Nice try.
I could have been more exact when I delimited Objectivism. I said that Objectivism is the philosophical system presented in the material Ayn Rand wrote or endorsed, but maybe I should have added: and that was published by her.

This implies that her letters, her journals, her lecture courses, her oral interviews, etc., are not part of the Objectivist litterature, i.e. the philosophical material contained in them is not part of Objectivism.

However, the material in Ominous Parallells and Who is Ayn Rand? are included in the Objectivist litterature, while OPAR is not.

If you want my comments re Harriman’s editing, please ask.

Why is this closed-system-point important? Why “nitpick” and say that OMPA is part of Objectivism and OPAR is not, that Who is Ayn Rand? is part of Objectivism and Letters of Ayn Rand is not?

What happens with open systems? Let me take one example: libertariansim.

Among libertarians we find anarchists, minarchists, minarchists who support forced taxation (Murray Franck), people who support the draft (Mises), welfare-statists (Hayek, Friedman). Whant, then is the libertarian viwe of tha state and the tax? All that there can be (there is even a gruop of libertarian socialistst). What is the libertarian view on the right to abortion? Both. What is the libertarian view on gun-control? Both. What is the libertarian view on copyrights? Both. What is the libertarian view on patents? Both. This is chaotic, but will be the result when systems are regarded as open.

I do not want this to happen to Objectivism. One example that shows that this is about to happen: Even if Objectivism is opposed to forced taxation, Sciabarra says that Murray Franck is an Objectivist.


Regards
Per Hansen

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