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Post 20

Thursday, December 22, 2005 - 3:23pmSanction this postReply
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Further, this movie tries to put this altruism in its best light, implying anything he would have done for his own sake would have been a much lesser value to all
Bah!  The movie does no such thing. What it did show is how his little neck of the woods would be affected if George had _never been born_, not if he made a different career choice! 

George's happiness was achieved despite his early reservations to the contrary.

I need to go back to another claim you made:

You missed the point of what I was saying.  Yes, he functioned well, superbly so - and was proud of what he did.   BUT - it was, bottom line, for the sake of others... and he allowed himself to consider the well-being of others as more important than his own.
How does George consider the "well being of others" more important than his own in the movie? In what way? I'm starting to believe you'd of thought better of George if he'd just taken the money and run. Screw everyone else! Fuck um! Suckers!

Phil nailed George's benevolent, heroic nature this way:

Another thought on productivity: It is an optional choice, but it is a worthy productive goal to try to create a world in which you raise people up around you, make them happy and successful, whether in the country or society you live in or, depending on productive choices, in the community you live in, be in Bedford Falls or Chippewa Falls or San Diego. You can do this as a banker, as a teacher, or as a novelist or a philosopher. George Bailey has an -enormous- benign impact on his own little world, not necessarily on the whole state or country, given his profession. Whether he personally formulates it in Christian terms or not (and I don't recall him doing that in the movie!), that can be an enormously satisfying, rational, selfish, productive, non-sacrificial achievement. To have a direct, personal, hope-giving impact on the world like that is not necessarily narcissism.
(Bold added by me)

Are you suggesting a career in which one "lifts others up" isn't a worthy path? That it's somehow inherently a sacrificial undertaking?  Phil demonstrated in the above that it's not. I'm interested in discovering why you or others think it is. I'm guessing that it's got something to do with George not seeking to get rich himself and that he really cared about his customer's and fellow townfolk. But you'll have to show how that's somehow a moral fracture.

Teresa



 


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Post 21

Thursday, December 22, 2005 - 6:37pmSanction this postReply
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Teresa, I'm with you on this one.

George Bailey clearly had value conflicts -- conflicts in deciding what was truly most important to him. It endlessly grated on him that choosing one set of values required him to defer or push aside others. But it is undeniable that all of his values -- those he ultimate chose, and those he was forced by circumstances to forego -- were rational values.

To argue otherwise is to say that his family, his bank, his brother, his friends, etc., should not have mattered as much to him. It's to say that he should have neglected them in order to (say) go explore the world.

But "should" he?

Oftentimes, we don't know what is truly most important to us until our values are tested. The benevolent interpretation of "It's a Wonderful Life" is that circumstances forced George to test his values...and he found that those near and dear to him meant the most to his personal happiness.

How, then, is this "self-sacrifice"?



Post 22

Friday, December 23, 2005 - 8:06pmSanction this postReply
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When I use to be a good Catholic this was my favourite movie. Even though I still enjoy parts of it, it certainly isn't what I would call a good "objectivist" movie.

As others have mentioned there are mixed messages through out the movie but I think the underlying theme is one of altruism. George Bailey sacrificed his desire (and happiness)to go conquer the world and of going off to college in order to save the family banking business and it's many clients from the evil clutches of Potter. And it wasn't like he was happy about it. Through out the movie he expresses, at times, extreme resentment for being stuck in Bedford Falls, of having to work at the bank, of having kids, of living in a delapidated house, of having no money, of not being a war hero like his brother, and of not making the kind of money and having the "fun" his friend Sam Wainwright did. Of course by sacrificing his own happiness through out his life for others, he is finally rewarded in the end when others help him in his time of need. Unless you have a critical objectivist eye I can't see how people viewing this movie wouldn't come away thinking that self-sacrifice is a good thing.

That being said I still think it is a good movie in parts. Jimmy Stewart is a fabulous dramatic, comedic and romantic actor in this movie. Who else can do it all and so well? Donna Reed is gorgeous as Jimmy Stewart's wife (which you think would have mitigated some if not all of his resentment for being stuck in Bedford Falls). The romantic tension in the scene where George and Mary(Stewart and Reed) are talking on the phone is superbly scripted and acted. Two great lines regarding the value of friends are given near the end of the movie. They are, "No man is a failure who has friends." (written by George Bailey's guardian angel Clarence) and, "Here's to George Bailey, the richest man I know." (said by Sam Wainwright to George after numerous friends come forward and generously give him money so he can save his bank.)

Gerald

Post 23

Saturday, December 24, 2005 - 7:33amSanction this postReply
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As others have mentioned there are mixed messages through out the movie but I think the underlying theme is one of altruism. George Bailey sacrificed his desire (and happiness)to go conquer the world and of going off to college in order to save the family banking business and it's many clients from the evil clutches of Potter. And it wasn't like he was happy about it. Through out the movie he expresses, at times, extreme resentment for being stuck in Bedford Falls, of having to work at the bank, of having kids, of living in a delapidated house, of having no money, of not being a war hero like his brother, and of not making the kind of money and having the "fun" his friend Sam Wainwright did. Of course by sacrificing his own happiness through out his life for others, he is finally rewarded in the end when others help him in his time of need. Unless you have a critical objectivist eye I can't see how people viewing this movie wouldn't come away thinking that self-sacrifice is a good thing.
I am of the opinion that it's only possible to say George sacrificed _anything_ if he'd accomplished those things he dreamt of, and then gave them up for a lessor value through force or coercion of principle.  Who knows how successful George would have been as a world traveler, student, soldier, or childless bachelor?  We don't, because he choose to pursue another course of value (when his values were tested, as Robert B. pointed out), and _postpone_ his early dreams. No where will you find him abandoning (or worse, "scorning") is youthful dreams outright.

George choose to embrace the actual values in his life, and postpone the potential values he dreamed to attain.  Reversing this course of action would translate into George sacrificing an actual value for a potential, and telling the former to "fuck off."
Not a very heroic prospect,  but perhaps maybe it is to nihilists and cynics. 

I'm sure the (nihilist) argument is that George never really valued the choices he made, but that's not how the movie portrays him. He clearly did value them, and mused frustration only when things got tough (who doesn't do that??). The movie wouldn't be as good if George simply resigned to every curve ball thrown at him and gave up.

Is postponing a potential for an actual value a sacrifice of the potential? I say it isn't.

Teresa 


Post 24

Saturday, December 24, 2005 - 9:02amSanction this postReply
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The film's definitely got an evil message, and the wonderful, quintessential American happy spirit with which the film is infused serves to make it all the more dangerous--by implying that the morality of altruism is part and parcel of that generalized feeling of goodwill toward men that in reality is the result of freedom and individual rights, and by implying that the virtues necessary for prosperity are the antithesis of such an atmosphere.

This film has the pervasive rank moral odor of conservatism, the underlying decrepit economics of socialism, and an overall spirit of happiness, hope, and goodwill that can only happen in a free country.

The great thing about the philosophy of Objectivism is that we can untangle this package-deal and enjoy the good aspects of the movie. And recognize that this movie is not wildly popular for its altruism and/or its socialism, but for its peculiarly American sense that it's wonderful life.


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Post 25

Saturday, December 24, 2005 - 11:00pmSanction this postReply
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My take on It's a Wonderful Life is that George goes through the entire movie trying to figure out what his values are. In the end, he figures it out. Now it's perfectly fine to disapprove of the particular values he chooses but that's not the essential thing. What's important is that George is a model for the difficult process of choosing values in the first place. The theme I take from it is: you can find value in this life.

I suppose some people's altruistic notions might be reinforced by this movie but the primary purpose of art is not to teach but to show and inspire. It's a Wonderful Life is an inspiration. I'll take a movie character that fights for his life and tries to identify his values any day of the week.   


Post 26

Monday, December 26, 2005 - 12:06pmSanction this postReply
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And that is precisely how Altruism - otherism - suckers you in, with the sweetness of sugar over the poison...


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Post 27

Monday, December 26, 2005 - 2:52pmSanction this postReply
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Another point I'd like to make about this movie which I don't think has been stressed is how it is an example of greatness *aesthetically*. Film students ought to study it (instead of whatever it is they're doing that produces the tone-deaf, story-and-character-deaf cretins who are currently directing films). In a bit over two hours, Frank Capra, one of the very greatest of film directors (the same man who did Jimmy Stewart's other most memorable film, Mr. Smith Goes to Washington), covers almost a whole lifetime. In each very short but telling scene, you learn more about who George Bailey is, or the people around him, or the America of the Depression and the war, or what it is to live in a happy family, or grow up in a tightly knit small town than in a whole contemporary movie which flails around with only foggy characterization. Jimmy Stewart does one of the finest jobs of acting you will ever see, nailing every emotion or attitude from youthful brashness to joy to ambivalence (about Mary, about life) to panic to despair to full happiness. All the other major and supporting characters are perfect from Mary to Potter to the Bailey family to Clarence.

It is hard to think of a scene that -doesn't- work in this movie. It has some of the most romantic scenes ever put in a film, some of the happiest and most serene scenes, and some of the most nightmarish (the alternate universe part). It's at times funny. It's sad. It's sweet. It's terrifying.

You can keep debating whether it was intended to advocate altruism or not if you want. But what I want to point out is that when you watch it (uncut dvd is the way to go - without the slimy little 'edited for television' cuts which are like defacing the Mona Lisa ) you are in the presence of genius. The vehemence of the reactions on this list prove its effectiveness.

It is a masterpiece, one of the top ten films ever made. From the lost time of the thirties and forties when they had standards and still knew how to make great movies.

Phil
(Edited by Philip Coates
on 12/26, 3:03pm)


Post 28

Tuesday, December 27, 2005 - 9:57amSanction this postReply
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Philip is absolutely correct about It's a Wonderful Life though I would argue that there have been many many great films made since the 30s and 40s.

 - Jason


Post 29

Tuesday, December 27, 2005 - 12:43pmSanction this postReply
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I think this thread is winding down but there is one more thing I want to say about a certain type of art, be it movie or book (and I think IAWL is an example of this):

One can make a film or write a story which is not basically about a certain kind of value or goal or way of living, but about a certain attitude or virtue: -how someone approaches- the goal or the life choice. In this sense, IAWL is about George Bailey as someone who is approaching his life in a wrong way. He is without hope, demoralized, and views himself as a failure. Contrast him to Mary who is living the same life with him.

One can make an analogy to being inspired by a childhood hero who altruistically sacrifices his life in battle for a bad cause. What a child does and should take away from this is the virtues of courage or steadfastness, not the particular cause. (I agree that religions use such stories to smuggle in altruism (bible stories, etc.), expecting that you will buy not merely the virtue but the goal to which the virtue is aimed and some will take that from this movie, but I don't think it was written to do that.)

Post 30

Wednesday, December 28, 2005 - 5:23amSanction this postReply
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I agree that it's a great film--I've seen it four times and will probably see it again more than once. The spirit of Christmas is benevolence and that is the rational aspect of the overall effect of the movie, if one ignores the destructive intellectual elements.

But just do not underestimate the destructiveness of yet one more paean to altruism presented in a near-universally appealing form.


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