RoR: Forum

Linz, I just want to say thanks.

I can't think of a better start for my day than to have read these 30 things upon awakening (they have "hit me" like a strong cup of java). And, while you didn't bring me tears; in stating these 30 things, you did swing me from great concern to great joy to great pain to great humor to great triumph. An appreciative bravo is in order.

Ed

Post 1

Saturday, August 28, 2004 - 8:03am

Once again, you've got it right.
It inspires me to send in a few things I've written of late that are on these subjects. I'm eagerly awaiting your biography, which no doubt will have a few more things to say on these matters.

Post 2

Saturday, August 28, 2004 - 1:28pm

THANK YOU for #3. I have been repeating that mantra since I started my third business at 22. ;)

Post 3

Saturday, August 28, 2004 - 10:30pm

Linz: Your list may not be an exhaustive one, but you've nailed the worst aspects of living in the Age of Crap. In my experience, #30 is the most prevalent, as well as the most despicable.

Post 4

Sunday, August 29, 2004 - 7:35am

"That contemporary art is art; that braying port-a-loos have artistic merit."

Is the "braying port-a-loo" in response to the "talking toilet" news I posted?

If that is the case, SOLO really does move at the speed of light!!!!!!!!!

Linz, thanks for a good belly laugh :-)

Post 5

Sunday, August 29, 2004 - 11:00am

Linz, now you've really gone too far:

14) That contemporary music is music; that headbanging caterwauling has musical merit.

Just for that, I'm going to have to write an Objectivist appreciation on SOLOHQ of AC/DC, Metallica, Judas Priest, and Rush.

Ayn Rand defines music as a form of art employing periodic vibrations in a sonorous body. So what are saying, Linz? Almost all headbanging music is in 4/4 time. Not periodic enough for you? And almost all of it is in the key of either E major or A major. Recall Rand's quotation in The Romantic Manifesto from Helmholtz about the virtues of music rooted in the major scale. What form of music is more doggedly based on the major scale than headbanging music?

As for the genus of the definition, art is a selective re-creation of reality based on the artist's metaphysical value-judgments. And surely heavy metal is among the most sublimely metaphysical art forms, as a quick survey of its Objectivist-friendly lyrics should suggest:

Consider the lyrics to AC/DC's "You Shook Me All Night Long" which celebrates excellence, industrialism, and romantic love simultaneously: "She was a fast machine/She kept the motor clean/She was the best damn woman that I've ever seen!" (Angus Young, lead guitarist of AC/DC, was once asked what he thought of Sting's advocacy of environmentalism. "I don't get it," he said. "Isn't his guitar made of wood?" Heavy metal politics is distinctly right of center.)

Then there's Rush's "Anthem," named after Ayn Rand's novel, which celebrates individualism and egoism: "Live for yourself/There's no one else more worth living for/Begging hands and bleeding hearts will only cry out for more..."

Or Judas Priest's "You Got Another Thing Coming," which offers the following gloss on volition and the choice to live: "If you think I'll sit around as the world goes by/You're thinking like a fool/'Cause it's a case of do or die/Out there is a fortune waiting to be had/You think I'll let it go, you're mad, you've got another thing coming..."

And I'm just scratching the surface here.

(Edited by Irfan Khawaja on 8/29, 11:01am)

Post 6

Sunday, August 29, 2004 - 12:54pm

Irfan,

I wholeheartedly agree with your post above. The Objectivist and libertarian influences on a number of rock and metal bands (most explicitly, Rush) have been spelt out about a bazillion times by a number of SOLOists, including myself.

Lindsay,

How many songs have you listened to by those specific rock/metal groups that have been praised here on SOLO? I'm not talking about Slipknot or any of the other genuinely crap bands that no one here has defended, but Iron Maiden, Rush, and the like are a world away from them.If you personally don't like those genres of music the intellectual content should still be clear from the lyrics.

MH

(Edited by Matthew Humphreys on 8/29, 12:56pm)

Post 7

Sunday, August 29, 2004 - 1:38pm

What Linz is saying, Irfan, is that rants about modern culture, and angry, caterwauling references to scatology, ejaculation, masturbation, rot and maggots are nihilistic and evil when indulged in by rock musicians, but are "kick-ass" (and, no doubt, wonderful "sense of life" and "belly-laugh") virtues when incessantly excreted by Linz.

J

Post 8

Sunday, August 29, 2004 - 1:43pm

MH writes,
"How many songs have you listened to by those specific rock/metal groups that have been praised here on SOLO? I'm not talking about Slipknot or any of the other genuinely crap bands that no one here has defended..."

How many Slipknot songs are you sure that you've interpreted correctly, Matthew? From the few songs of theirs that I've heard, it's quite clear that their rage is directed toward people who would insist that art should be a selective recreation of reality according the thinness of record company executives' wallets (which Linz has apparently misinterpreted as Slipknot hoping that their music would encourage everyone, rather than just intrusive, sell-out recording execs and their ilk, to consider suicide).

J

Post 9

Sunday, August 29, 2004 - 4:36pm

Jonathan,

Please explain to me how to interpret this song or this song (or indeed any other Slipknot song as these were both randomly selected) in anything other than a negative light.

MH

Post 10

Sunday, August 29, 2004 - 4:36pm

Jonathan,

Please explain to me how to interpret this song or this song (or indeed any other Slipknot song as these were both randomly selected) in anything other than a negative light.

MH

Post 11

Sunday, August 29, 2004 - 8:19pm

I've just read the first one. The lyrics are utterly vile and filled with hate.

Yuck.

Post 12

Sunday, August 29, 2004 - 8:19pm

You picked two songs, Matthew, which I think are pretty good examples of my previous comments.

First song, basically:
You came to force your will upon me. I will not conform to what you want me to be. I will not become you. I won't surrender my identity to satisfy your ego, idiotic social conventions, happiness or lust for wealth or power. Or, more briefly, "Give me liberty, or I'll give you death."

Second song:
You call us maggots or a disease because we won't alter our lives to fit your demands. We identify with one aspect of the title you have given us: we will behave like a virus -- we will resist your manipulative efforts to destroy or reshape us in your own revolting image. You can't take our souls away from us.

I should mention that I don't imagine myself as an expert on Slipknot (I don't even think I'd call myself a serious fan), but I did very briefly encountered a couple of its members a few years ago in a guitar shop in Des Moines. I didn't know who they were at the time, but with the number of youngsters hanging around in awe, in was obvious that they were famous, and it piqued my curiosity. So I eavesdropped for a few minutes. They were friendly and quite humorous, spoke about maintaining the strength to be yourself, warned the young crowd about the manipulative power brokers in the music biz (and the rest of the world), and talked about how often "Mr. Fucking Businessman" had demanded that they either tone down their music or -- more often -- make it more violent to suit market research.

J

Post 13

Sunday, August 29, 2004 - 10:26pm

Sorry, Linz, but I have to nitpick. I agree heartily with most of your list, but not all. Some of the nits I'll pick are because of your valid concern with the precision of language.

#3. "That an MBA graduate has a brain."

Some do.

#5. ". . . smart-asses who ejaculate to arcane masturbations about the meaning of the word "meaning" are authentic philosophers."

The meaning of words is immensely important. I have no sympathy with philosophers who deal only with words and who think that's the beginning and end of philosophy, but there are some who legitimately are concerned with such issues. What "meaning" means, and the meaning of many other such terms, is crucial to philosophical investigations. Note that Rand gave her own meaning to "selfishness;" if a reader doesn't investigate what she means by the term, he won't begin to understand her. Surely we have all had disagreements, then found that the problem was not a real disagreement but the result of each of us using a particular word to mean different things.

#12."That any old perception is reality, just because it's a perception."

I truly don't know what this means; nor am I aware of philosophers who say it. Please explain.

Apart from these, I think your list is great.

Barbara

Post 14

Monday, August 30, 2004 - 2:18pm

I disagree very strongly with the statement:

Note that Rand gave her own meaning to �selfishness�; if a reader doesn�t investigate what she means by the term, he won�t begin to understand her.

To me it�s clear that AR thought of herself as using the term in its exact sense, in defiance of those who had corrupted it. (See her introduction to The Virtue of Selfishness.) And I agree with her. Also see the term�s construction: self + -ish + -ness, a formula that does not add up to the negative meaning.

Years before discovering The Fountainhead, I myself had consciously realized, �Hey�it�s good to be selfish.� I did not have to give a new meaning to the term in order to come to that conclusion.

Post 15

Monday, August 30, 2004 - 7:02pm

Rodney, you wrote: "To me it�s clear that AR thought of herself as using the term ["selfishness"} in its exact sense, in defiance of those who had corrupted it."

But she did not include in its meaning the idea that to exploit others is "selfish," which is what so many people, before Rand,understood the term to mean. Its exact sense had little to do with its common usage. I prefer to use the term "self-interest," or "rational self-interest," because it requires less explanation. But if I were writing a novel,and there had been no FOUNTAINHEAD, I'd use "selfishness" for the same reason Rand did, and explain my usage, as Rand did.

Barbara

Post 16

Tuesday, August 31, 2004 - 1:56am

Jonathan,

Interesting anecdote. I must say however that their songs still strike me as encapsulating the mindless false individualism of those "goth" types who think that dressing up in black with white face paint is an appropriate means of self-expression. Btw, I've nothing against strong expletives such as the f word in context (indeed I use them myself when appropriate) but the frequency with which they appear in Slipknot's lyrics troubles me to say the least.

Compare their songs to, say Tom Sawyer by Rush, where their protagonist is reminiscent of Howard Roark, and their is absolutely no comparison.

MH

(Edited by Matthew Humphreys on 8/31, 1:59am)

Post 17

Tuesday, August 31, 2004 - 10:33am

Interesting that one of the slip knot lyrics that MH posted started with the line:

"Im gonna tell you what. Im gonna dedicate this next fucking
song to all our crazy fucking maggots out there."

It looks like Linz's "maggot" label is right on the money.

Linz, you haven't been surfing the web for slipknot updates again, have you? :-)

Post 18

Tuesday, August 31, 2004 - 12:28pm

MH: "Interesting anecdote."

I've often thought about posting it whenever Slipknot fever has flared up on SOLO. Linz's histrionics just never seemed to add up with my personal experience of the band members. But I always felt that I should give a serious listen to their music before commenting, and I had never taken the time to do so until very recently.

MH: "I must say however that their songs still strike me as encapsulating the mindless false individualism of those "goth" types who think that dressing up in black with white face paint is an appropriate means of self-expression."

OK. That's your opinion. You may or may not be right, but, for what it's worth, the goth types that I've known are not so mindless as to spend a couple of years having a shit-hemorrhage over music that they've never listened to.

MH: "Btw, I've nothing against strong expletives such as the f word ["filosofy"?] in context (indeed I use them myself when appropriate) but the frequency with which they appear in Slipknot's lyrics troubles me to say the least. Compare their songs to, say Tom Sawyer�by Rush, where their protagonist is reminiscent of Howard Roark, and their is absolutely no comparison."

I wouldn't want to spend my entire life in the universe of Slipknot's art (or, for that matter, Rush's, Tolkien's, Norman Rockwell's, Frank Frazetta's, or Ayn Rand's, etc.) but now that I've explored it a little, I'll definitely return to visit now and then -- especially during tax season and on those rare occasions when brainless MBAs shove their flow charts and spread sheets in my face and tell me what they've concluded is not an "appropriate means of self-expression." I'll enjoy being recharged by what I would call Slipknot's sense of threateningly defiant individualist integrity.

Best,
J

PS - I'm left wondering, would I be able to tell if Slipknot has co-opted me into helping them destroy the world, or do they use some sort of hypnotic effect which renders their minions unaware of the evil that has been injected into their souls? When I start killing people at Slipknot's behest, will I know it?

Post 19

Tuesday, August 31, 2004 - 2:40pm