RoR: Forum

well said!! tho the irrationalists, posing as objectivists, will again, of course, try to mount an opposition - especially in regards to that disgustingly evil anti-abortion so-called position, evil because the concept of volitional consciousness does NOT in fact enter into consideration until 'all systems go' and there is birth...

Post 1

Sunday, September 12, 2004 - 5:36pm

Bravo, Manfred!

The position that a woman has no rights to her own body if she is pregnant and that the state has the right to tell her what she may and may not with it, is as statist an idea as I can imagine.

Further, to state that a fetus has a volitional consciousness is absurd. It does not have the brain capacity of a kitten; it does not have even the ability to perceive, much less to make choices. I find such arguments as foolish and irritating as I think you do, Manfred.

Barbara

Post 2

Sunday, September 12, 2004 - 7:00pm

�All systems go��I love that expression in this context!

But remember�even a takeoff may sometimes be aborted for good reason.

Post 3

Sunday, September 12, 2004 - 7:13pm

I know this was an afterthought, but I find the cigarette as a symbol fascinating too. Grew up being told basically that smoking was evil and have completely changed my mind about it. Though I can't stand the smell personally, it is a person's right to choose and I accept that. It is revolting that in the U.K. (and the rest of Europe?) governments spend millions of taxpayer dollars on forcing cigarette companies to print such messages as "SMOKING KILLS" and "SMOKING IS HIGHLY ADDICTIVE, DON'T START" and "SMOKING HARMS YOU AND OTHERS AROUND YOU," as well as numerous other insults to the person's intelligence. (See these websites: http://www.forestonline.org/output/page26.asp and http://tma.pr24x7.com/index.php?MRM_pmid=248&PHPSESSID=c3972014eb4c63ac371dbcdafef8c447.)
Sponsored by the European Commission--no surprise there.

Fabulous, fabulous article! Lucid arguments, hardhitting language. I enjoyed it very much--Thanks!

Meg

Post 4

Monday, September 13, 2004 - 9:04am

Well done, Mr. Schieder.

I remember reading your and Mr. Stolyarov's argument, and I remember reading Mr. Stolyarov's implications that a woman's body, once breeding a potential life, was the property of the state until the life came to be. Neither his argument for the actual life of a fetus/embryo nor his argument for using force to prevent or punish abortion hold even the slightest water--and both are apalling. He's rehashing old (and weak) arguments, and frankly, those arguments are horrifying and tiring.

Continuing rational argument with those who refuse to listen is useless. Kudos on realizing the futility of arguing any more.

Post 5

Monday, September 13, 2004 - 8:48am

rodney - that was precisely why i used it... the analogy holds well, in that, as you said, there is 'ignition', and 'lift-off', and yes - 'abort'... all for the same analogous reasons in the birthing process... and until such, the whole is under the control of the woman...

Post 6

Monday, September 13, 2004 - 8:48am

Thursday, September 16, 2004 - 9:28am

Vienna, September 16, 2004

Dear Mr. Rowlands:

Thank you for informing me where you placed my final reply to Mr. Stolyarov. I�m new in the SOLO Webpage as you know and it will take a short time to get familiar with its organization. In the meantime I will also answer all those members who have commented my reply with kind words.

Separately I am filling in the description of myself which I didn�t complete when I opened my account

Further on in a short time I will submit the English version of one of the articles I published in Argentine newspapers and magazines while still living in Argentina and, should the members and readers of the SOLO page like it I could eventually supply further writings. And, of course, I will participate in the forums, albeit at a slow pace since I am also in contact with Argentine and German Objectivist sites.

Congratulations for the Webpage itself: Well done, filled to the very top and beyond with intelligent and interesting articles and comments!

Best regards,

Manfred F. Schieder

Post 8

Thursday, September 16, 2004 - 9:29am