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Post 0

Saturday, December 4, 2004 - 1:15amSanction this postReply
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BAH! HUMBUG!

Just kidding. Actually, as I read this, I was thinking about the other "Scrooge," Dr. Seuus's THE GRINCH. It seems that the GRINCH is the Scrooge that should have been: envious of the happiness of the Whovillians, who seemed to possess material wealth in addition to a spiritual wealth, which was made clear when the Grinch's machinations did not prevent the town from celebrating. Talk about hatred of the good! Instead of the Spirits of Christmas coming to terrorize him into benevolence, the Grinch was defeated by the spirit of the Whovillians, as it was made obvious that their material wealth was a result of their inner wealth. As they sing in the town square, they didn't have to say to the Grinch "but I don't think of you;" instead, they SANG! The Grinch tried to stop the motor of Whoville, but failed.

Horton hears a "Who is John Galt?" anyone?

Post 1

Saturday, December 4, 2004 - 10:23amSanction this postReply
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Msr. Setzer-

On the one hand, I'm afraid I don't share your sense of life, and truly prefer the original Christmas Carol- which personally I think is more about empathy and friendship than altruism- not that Dickens is by any means my favorite author.

But aside that, I *loved* your post.  You have the imaginative structure for a fascinating remythologizing, and I encourage you to write this tale, which sounds like a wonderful piece of art.  I picture something akin to the "politically correct fairy stories"- what you have here could easily be fleshed out to an illustrated fairy-tale style faux-children's book.  Fascinating and mischievious, and likely marketable (publish for the Christmas season and you'd sell well).

I may be a capitalist with faint love for capitalist morality, but your piece 'tis proof that the capitalist ethos can be a foundation for artistic excellence like any other, and I say beauty first, damn the moralities!  Please, do something with this!

true regards,
                                    v
                                    *
Jeanie Shiris Ring   )(  )(

P.S.  Can I copy this piece, with attribution (and a rewording of the above commentary as a preface) for my own online Salon?  (link on my profile)


Post 2

Saturday, December 4, 2004 - 12:57pmSanction this postReply
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Hi Luther,

I don't think you will think this is funny but I read your piece in the spirit of a saterical criticism of accountants, from that perspective I enjoyed it but I don't think that is what you intended.

Michael


Post 3

Saturday, December 4, 2004 - 2:03pmSanction this postReply
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Jeanine,

You have my permission to repost this article intact with the usual credits and your preface at your Salon.  Please link back here and also post your Salon link to this discussion forum.


Luke Setzer


Post 4

Saturday, December 4, 2004 - 2:53pmSanction this postReply
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Very well, Msr. Setzer, I've put your article on my Salon; the link is
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Salon_Total_Freedom/message/291.

please post more imaginativities!

Jeanine Ring    )(*)(

Salonmistress
Salon Total Freedom


Post 5

Saturday, December 4, 2004 - 5:16pmSanction this postReply
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Sorry Luther, That was rude of me. I love Dickens and your piece did not hit me right.

Michael


Post 6

Saturday, December 4, 2004 - 8:12pmSanction this postReply
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Good observation, Luther.  My nephews asked me to read this story to them the other night (a very abridged version of the original), and I found myself becoming more disgusted with each page.  By the time I finished, I decided that if I ever read it to them again, the story would be quite different.  They can't read yet, so they won't catch on.  ;)

But overall, I don't think A Christmas Carol it is a completely foul story.  If you think about it, Scrooge might resemble a really tight-assed Objectivist sort who needs to become a bit more open to the human race.  :)  I think his character could be explained in a better way.  And Bob Cratchitt does work hard, so there are some good points to be gleaned from the story. 

Let's go to the drawing board and compare notes.  :)


Post 7

Sunday, December 5, 2004 - 4:10pmSanction this postReply
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Jennifer,

Read your nephews Thidwick the Big-Hearted Moose by Dr. Seuss.  It cleverly takes to task unlimited democracy and deftly hands the antagonists their "just deserts" at the end.


Luke Setzer


Post 8

Sunday, December 5, 2004 - 6:14pmSanction this postReply
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Ooh, I didn't know about that one.  To date, my favorite is "There's a Wocket in My Pocket."  No sexual innuendo intended. 

Post 9

Wednesday, December 8, 2004 - 9:28pmSanction this postReply
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Oh, I've forgotten the name of the movie/ book, but I saw a movie from a Dickens novel some time within the past year and it too was blatantly anti-business! It begins with an idyllic family living in the countryside. The father then puts his entire fortune into speculation of some sort, loses it all and commits suicide. The two kids and mother have to move to London and become lower-class citizens and rely on their EVIL rich uncle to support them. How irritating!

I loved your version of "A Christmas Carol!" I always empathized with Scrooge quite a bit when I watched the Disney version as a kid. I love that you make him the hero.

Meg Townsend


Post 10

Thursday, December 9, 2004 - 1:09pmSanction this postReply
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Meg,
That's "Nicholas Nickleby".

Not surprisingly, Dickens used to be a favorite Western author in Soviet and Communist China. I used to believe that most kids in American or England lived like Oliver Twist!


Post 11

Saturday, December 11, 2004 - 10:17pmSanction this postReply
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Want to read a read another defense of Scrooge? Ironically, even altruists can find reasons to admire him, in a way that only altruists can.

http://slate.msn.com/id/2110817/?GT1=5936

Post 12

Sunday, December 12, 2004 - 12:16pmSanction this postReply
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Joe, the guy who wrote this article is not altruistic.  

He is advocating tax reform that encourages saving your money like Scrooge did in the Christmas Carrol. 

While he is not an Objectivist he is an advocate of sound fiscal responsibility and his website: http://www.landsburg.com/ is quite good.  In it he advocates that we have a free market, that protects human rights and places the power of choice in the hands of the consumer.  I have to say that I like the basics of his book 'Fair Play' in which he talks about how he explains economics to his daughter (under 10 years old) about the moral value of capitalism and free trade with everyone.  

I am sure he has some contradictions in his work somewhere but I haven't found anything in the first few parts of his book.  On the whole this is a good guy who while not an Objectivist is still on our side.

~E.


Post 13

Sunday, December 12, 2004 - 12:35pmSanction this postReply
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Just as a follow up for those interested here are some quotes from his website that I thought were quite good.  He seems to be questioning Altruistic Moral Standards in Socalism through the use of simple economic reasoning and applying it to raising children.

How should we feel about taxes that redistribute income?
Ask how parents feel about children who forcibly "redistribute" other children's toys.

Cayley (his daughter) relies on me for moral guidance. Sure, I could explain to her how trade makes our family richer. But nine-year-olds are quite self-centered enough; it's their concern for others that needs gentle encouragement. So instead of telling Cayley how great it is for our family to save money at the car dealer's, I talk to her about the difference between right and wrong.

She knows a lot about right and wrong already. She is an active trader in the schoolyard markets for decals, trading cards, and milk bottle caps. Sometimes Cayley wants to trade with her classmate Melissa but Melissa prefers to deal with Jennifer, from the other fourth-grade classroom. Cayley knows how disappointing that can be, but she also knows she can't force Melissa to trade with her. More important, she knows it would be wrong to try.

Cayley is too morally advanced even to imagine asking her teacher to intervene and prohibit Melissa from trading with "foreigners." Only a very unpalatable child would attempt such a tactic.

Buchanan sees the U.S. Congress as the great national teacher, maintaining order on the schoolyard, making sure that all the children play the way the teachers' special pets -- or special industries -- want them to play. My daughter thinks that stinks. She's right.

That's a conscious echo of Wal-Mart's own well-advertised policies. Signs posted in every aisle boast of the store's efforts not to carry imported goods. Wal-Mart does not always succeed, admit the signs; sometimes they're very eager to carry an item that's not easily available except from abroad. But when Wal-Mart can, it prefers to "buy American - - so you can too."

By the time Cayley was old enough to read those signs, she was old enough to know that people who want you to care about the race or religion or sex or national origin of your trading partners are bad people.

Even Wal-Mart managers are likely to have learned that truth in childhood. Adults who want to believe otherwise must resort to extremes of sophistry that are not accessible to elementary schoolers.
Joe that article you found has helped locate a wonderful cache.

Thanks,

~E.


Post 14

Sunday, December 12, 2004 - 1:38pmSanction this postReply
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From the article:
"If you build a house and refuse to buy a house, the rest of the world is one house richer. If you earn a dollar and refuse to spend a dollar, the rest of the world is one dollar richer—because you produced a dollar's worth of goods and didn't consume them."

BAH! Ok, I may have missed the larger meaning by reifing this passage. Thanks for pointing out the true meaning of the piece, Eric.





Post 15

Wednesday, December 27, 2006 - 5:19pmSanction this postReply
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The dear man himself...
http://www.larry-bolch.com/soft/images/Scrooge-Twilight.jpg

My preferred instantiation:
http://www.bpib.com/illustra2/barks5.jpg


Post 16

Tuesday, December 9, 2008 - 10:03amSanction this postReply
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Bravo, Luke!

I found your rewrite refereshing.  By switching the ghostly visitation and subsequent behaviorial change from Scrooge to Cratchit, you get to the heart of the matter.  Both you and Dickens are trying to address the problem of poverty; both stories are attempting to show a way to combat it.  Dickens offers a superficial solution, while in your version of the story, we go to the very root of the problem.

Still, I think the original story has its merits.  While I agree with you that Cratchit is a character who needs to discover basic truths of life and finance, I also think Scrooge has things to learn.  While Scrooge may be right about many things, from how he runs his business to his view of charity, he is fundamentally flawed in his view of life.  I wrote an article about it here:  http://rebirthofreason.com/Articles/Eric/A_Christmas_Package_Deal.shtml

In addition to the article itself, you may enjoy one of the follow-up posts in which Richard Gleaves writes his own sequel to A Christmas Carol.  I guess if we're going to be re-examining this story, 'tis the season.

Eric


Post 17

Tuesday, December 9, 2008 - 12:02pmSanction this postReply
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Bah, Humbug!

Fezziwig was the only balanced moral character in the tale. He chose how to spend his money, using it increase his enjoyment. Scrooge was no Objectivist, just an obsessive materialist. His friends and family were rank altruists, as were the spirits.

jt

Post 18

Tuesday, December 9, 2008 - 6:10pmSanction this postReply
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Okay, funny. But everyone knows that hungry sow will eat their own young.

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