RoR: Forum

Two words, Ross:

SHINE ON.

Post 1

Thursday, August 4, 2005 - 6:06am

Thank you, Ross, for the inspired and inspirational presentation.

It is pretty easy to rip into NASA. The shuttle was born a "dinosaur" (dyna-soar), 20 years outmoded when it was launched. The best astronauts were shunted aside and the best pilots never became astronauts. The sins of bureaucracy are built into any organization that large and govern-mentality multiples and expontentiates the prices that other people must pay. None of that can diminish what has been done.

By the Americans -- and the Russians.

The Spanish of the 1500s opened more new worlds than they dreamed of when they headed out across a limitless sea rather than hugging the coastline. Their flags were followed by others. Ultimately, the seeds they planted bore fruit for millions of people who carried no flag, but only their own hopes.

The meek shall inherit the Earth. The rest of us will travel to the stars.

Post 2

Thursday, August 4, 2005 - 7:37am

"Everything is possible.

Man is capable and Man is good.

Just get out of his way."

While those seven were orbiting, fourteen other American heroes traveling in a hostile environment were killed in a massive explosion.

Man is also short-sighted, political, and usually flawed. Let's not forget that Howard Roark had to blow up what was left of his towers--his victory in court seems rather Pyrrhic.

All too often, it is people who get in people's way. And there are few people who are willing to hold their convictions when times get tough. We have lots of politicians these days, but no statesmen.

And if/when a technology is developed that can fundamentally change the way the world works, it is likely to be co-opted by big government or worse.

Yes, I'm being pessimistic. But a victory lap seems premature. There are still lots of people in very powerful positions locked in old political struggles, and technology, economy, and society have not come close to making them obsolete yet. We can't relax until they do.

Chris

Post 3

Thursday, August 4, 2005 - 8:33am

Ross � that was poetry. Thanks. That man can accomplish these feats in spite of all the encumbrances of government is inspirational.

Sam

Post 4

Thursday, August 4, 2005 - 9:35am

Ross, this is a great piece, thanks.

I liked the shameless use of �We. Our guys. Us.� And, �There we are.�

I find nothing wrong with having a sense of collective pride for great achievements. One day, humans will inhabit thousands of asteroids, more planets, dozens of moons, etc. We will fill this solar system, then move on to others. There may be trillions of us. I�m proud already.

Jon

Post 5

Thursday, August 4, 2005 - 10:38am

Yes, space is still the future of mankind, the last domain to be settled, the ultimate challenge for engineers and scientists, but except for satellite technology, spacefare has stagnated the last 20 years.

With the recent explosions of the Space Shuttle, we even lose what once was in our hands, hopefully, the Discovery Mission will be successful. At least, we have set another prime example of man's ability by repairing the Space Shuttle in space.
Perhaps, the space program will be given into the hands of the new generation soon. As with every government program, it only gets kick-started when it is turned over into private hands. This will hopefully charge the younger generation of space exploration to take off any time soon.

The moon is still in our minds and it laughs at our faces during night. Let's go and seize it!

Post 6

Thursday, August 4, 2005 - 11:11am

Thanks for the article Ross. Mankind has come far. ;-)

As with every government program, it only gets kick-started when it is turned over into private hands. This will hopefully charge the younger generation of space exploration to take off any time soon. The moon is still in our minds and it laughs at our faces during night. Let's go and seize it!

I agree with you there Max.

How much better it would be to say, man did this voluntarily through his own wealth.

I am sure, if private enterprise in space were alive and well, we would have already explored Mars and would have a few colonies and mining plants up on the Moon.

Who knows, the growth of the Moon's economy could have even overtaken Earth's by now.

Post 7

Thursday, August 4, 2005 - 12:44pm

The Blue Angels are flying over Seattle today doing an airshow, and I immediately thought of this piece. My first thought was "they're too close to my roof!" Then I thought about the military connotations. But then I thought of this article, and smiled. Men playing with their toys, indeed!

Post 8

Thursday, August 4, 2005 - 1:04pm

I guess when you're a government employee no matter how intrepid you are you're inclined to spout the drivel that will appeal to those who are most apt to provide your project and lively hood with funding, namely: the environmentalists.

Those who have downloaded Google: Earth have the capability of verifying the following observations. Check out the jungles of Brazil that have ostensibly been decimated. Check out the vast areas that are rendered uninhabitable for virtually any kind of life � the Australian Outback and the Sahara Desert. (Oh, I forgot. Nature did that)

HOUSTON (Reuters) - Commander Eileen Collins said astronauts on shuttle Discovery had seen widespread environmental destruction on Earth and warned on Thursday that greater care was needed to protect natural resources.

"Sometimes you can see how there is erosion, and you can see how there is deforestation. It's very widespread in some parts of the world," Collins said in a conversation from space with Japanese officials in Tokyo, including Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi.

"We would like to see, from the astronauts' point of view, people take good care of the Earth and replace the resources that have been used," said Collins, who was standing with Japanese astronaut Soichi Noguchi in front of a Japanese flag and holding a colorful fan.

http://reuters.myway.com/article/20050804/2005-08-04T171414Z_01_N0475285_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-SPACE-SHUTTLE-DC.html

Sam

Post 9

Thursday, August 4, 2005 - 4:13pm

Thanks for all the positive feedback, people.

Jon, yes, collective pride is NOT the same as collectivised pride. I'm immensely proud of Man.

It's not about Nazi-type species/race consciousness or blind groupthink, it's about recognising the abstraction that lives within each of us. And in being proud of that, metaphysical as it may be, you gain strength and hope. We are babes in the woods (good article title, that :-)) vis the universe. Ever seen a young child struggling to understand the world? To master it and grasp reality? It's a lovely thing. It speaks to us as adults and most importantly as humans. It's a struggle and it defines us. It's cause for optimism not pessimism.

Which brings me to...

Chris:

My sentiments weren't meant to be a victory lap. And, it's not lost on me that while we celebrate triumph in space, young Americans are dying in Iraq.

But, you know, there's really NO DIFFERENCE between a spacesuit and kevlar battle gear. Is there? Think about it.

Regardless of your views on the liberation of Iraq, with an astronaut and an Allied GI, you have a concretisation of the same abstraction.

And don't put your hopes in politicians. To paraphrase Ronnie, they are the problem, not the solution. And technology won't save you if ideas are against you. Yes, we may devolve into another dark ages, but the ideas that objectivists develop now will stand men in good stead when the next renaissance arrives.

Ross
(Edited by Ross Elliot
on 8/04, 4:22pm)

Post 10

Thursday, August 4, 2005 - 6:10pm

Ross-
I think you are quite justified in taking a victory lap. Excellent article.

Let Chris go cozy up to a Kierkegaard or a Sartre and wallow in his metaphysical value judgements.

Post 11

Friday, August 5, 2005 - 8:50pm

Ross, excellent point on space suits and armor. I hope I didn't give the impression that I think the space program isn't worth it--the space program has produced a flood of innovations. As to "don't put your hopes in politicians"... read again--I was bemoaning the excess of politicians and lack of statesmen.

Jody, which value judgements were you objecting to? Is it metaphysical to say "Man is also short-sighted, political, and usually flawed?" Or perhaps it's metaphysical to imply that it's a damn shame when our GI's get blown up?

Chris

Post 12

Saturday, August 6, 2005 - 3:21pm