RoR: Forum

Thanks for the entertaining read, Luke. I laughed out loud when I read this part: "In his usual unfazed brazenness, he reported to the court a personal net worth of less than $800." I could just picture all the freeloading litigants and their scum lawyers trying to carve out some piece of Givens's pie, and running up against a labyrinthian tangle of offshore accounts, holding corporations, and tax shelters. It put a grin on my face.

Post 1

Sunday, October 9, 2005 - 9:13am

Thank you for this wonderful profile of an American hero, Luke. I found this article especially timely as I just finished arguing, right before I logged onto SOLO this morning, with one of my daughters regarding term life vs. whole life. My opinion mirrors Givens' opinion but my daughter unfortunately disagrees. She's following the advice of her paid financial advisor who recommends whole life. Oh, well, she has to live and learn for herself that, among other things, father usually knows best.

Post 2

Sunday, October 9, 2005 - 11:29am

What is with the hair? Why do these business gurus always have pompadoured do's from the 70's? Ziglar, Peters, Givens...TRUMP...maybe it's a reaction to boot camp...;)

Post 3

Sunday, October 9, 2005 - 7:24pm

Wonderful article, Luke.

I knew precious little about Givens before. Your nutshell bio and comments stimulated my interest in learning more.

bonk

Michael

Post 4

Sunday, October 9, 2005 - 7:52pm

Thanks for the information, Luke. I liked what I saw earlier in the synopsis of the book, some of the things are known to me, but some areas I am unfamiliar with and I think would be valuable to know. I decided to buy a copy of the book and I will let you know what I think.

Post 5

Sunday, October 9, 2005 - 10:50pm

Thanks Luke, an interesting tale, and one I will now follow up on.

Post 6

Monday, October 10, 2005 - 3:23am

Thanks for all the compliments, folks.

I should mention one aspect of Givens as a cautionary note. Back in the 1970s, when he was struggling to get some of his business ventures rolling, he was heavily involved in promoting some of the more "far out" New Age ideas of the time via the seminar business. Back in 2004, someone who attended one of those Givens 1970s weekend retreats sent me copies of the audio tapes he had personally recorded from that seminar. I have an outline and critique of their content here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CharlesGivens/message/292

Thankfully, Givens left that racket later in life and I never saw any hint of his adherence to those notions by the time he published his first bestseller, Wealth without Risk -- my first exposure to Givens -- in 1988. I suppose it is possible that his "life blueprint" concept that forms the theme for his last book, SuperSelf, has unmentioned assumptions by the author that still fall in the "New Age" category of mysticism. But the principles and strategies explicitly named in all of his published books fall in line quite comfortably with Objectivism.

(Edited by Luke Setzer on 10/10, 3:29am)

Post 7

Friday, December 2, 2011 - 2:28am

Regarding the "Hang On Sloopy" remark in the article, someone close to Givens corrected me this morning:

"He didn't say he WROTE it - he said he acquired the 'RIGHTS' to the song. He didn't claim he wrote it - but someone along the line misunderstood the connection and they claimed he did and it grew from there. Mr Givens often entertained at large parties in his home and he always ended up on the sound stage (just off his living room) singing. He always sang 'Hang on Sloopy' before the night was over. And every time he sang it, he repeated the same thing - that he 'bought the right to call it his song.' He boasted that he owned the rights to it - but I never heard him say he wrote it."

Post 8

Friday, December 2, 2011 - 4:25am

I showed a friend of mine the difference of his current whole life policy and what he would have at 65 vs double the coverage he had with term and investing the difference separately at a modest 4% interest rate in a tax deferred account was over 1.2 million dollars.

Whole life peddlars in my eyes are guilty of fraudulent business practices.

Post 9

Saturday, December 3, 2011 - 6:17am

Fraud unlikely; high commissions on whole life compared to term, yes.

Is your projection misleading? You say the money is invested in a tax-deferred account. So does the $1.2 million difference recognize income taxes at the end of the projection period? Are increasing term insurance premiums overlooked? Does the whole life projection include dividends, if applicable?

(Edited by Merlin Jetton on 12/03, 6:36am)

Post 10

Saturday, December 3, 2011 - 7:28am

Yes I compaired it apples to apples.
One of the issues was that if once the whole life policy hasss any equity in it(usually after 5 years it will) if he needed any of the money from it before the policy matures he would have to borrow it and pay it back at a later date..it isn't even his money.
Btw this is up in canada so I'm not familiar with the rules for tax deferred accounts in the usa.
In canada you can take any investment whether it be stocks bonds mutual funds or even a bank savings account and turn it into an rrsp (registered retirement savings plan).
Any interest earned or dividends payed to the account accumulate and compound interest free.
Upon retirement you can then flip it into an irf (income retirement fund)
The irf also accumulates interest tax free and you then allow it to pay you a set amount/month and you pay taxes only on that monthly income.

As for the rising cost of term insurance he was a 25 year old non smoker so for 20 term it was very very cheap.
I also included what the same coverage would cost him to get another 20year term from 45-65 it was still way wayyy cheaper.

Btw no I don't sell insurance I just hate seeing friends get ripped off.

Added bonus to keeping your investment seperate is ifff you do have an emergency it is your money not the insurance companies.

Post 11

Saturday, December 3, 2011 - 8:46am