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Post 20

Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 3:23pmSanction this postReply
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Yes that's true, but sacrificing a meal because you refuse to hurt animals implies that you attribute value to their lives and well being. The ethical vegetarian thinks animals have a right to life like people, evading the fact that by assigning moral principles to amoral creatures is mistaken and only hurts yourself (and potentially other people).

Here I'll give you both the link:
Sacred Cow by Joseph Rowlands


:)
(Edited by Stephen Knoll
on 10/20, 3:25pm)




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Post 21

Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 3:39pmSanction this postReply
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Stephen,

Ignoring the facts that not all ethical vegetarians even support the notion of rights, sacrificing a meal to save a nonhuman animal qualifies as an emergency situation (and even Oism frays at the edges in an emergency), and abstaining from harming a creature has nothing to do with granting it the right to life, yes, sacrificing yourself is "evil."

Sarah



Post 22

Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 5:27pmSanction this postReply
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Of course not harming other sentient beings does not apply to other sentient beings, huh... such rank hypocracy...



Post 23

Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 5:30pmSanction this postReply
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I always wondered about the HQ part...figured SOLO.COM must have already been taken.

Joe, I've come away from your articles with a few ideas that I found helpful or got me thinking, even found you challenging on the introvert/extravert thread. Shine on, Joe.





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Post 24

Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 5:53pmSanction this postReply
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Robert,

If you're talking about not harming sentient beings while not harming yourself or other humans at the same time, no hypocrisy there. That's part of the consistent practice of vegetarianism, but, unfortunately, the radical vegetarians (what SOLO is actually rebuking) aren't that consistent. Same story with pacifism or environmentalism or feminism. In rational practice, they aren't bad. It's common sense stuff really. Taking pleasure in the suffering of others = bad. Destroying the environment you use to sustain yourself = bad. Women inherently subordinate to men = bad. The problem comes when the pendulum swings to the other extreme and you get radicals like PETA or Greenpeace. Be mindful of the baby in the bathwater.

Sarah



Post 25

Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 4:15pmSanction this postReply
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Save the vegetables! Eat a vegetarian!

--Brant




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Post 26

Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 6:43pmSanction this postReply
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Bravo, Joe!!!

Anyone who says that it's morally wrong to humanely kill and eat animals is just plain wrong. Not eating meat for purely ethical reasons necessarily involves a profound misunderstanding of the whole business of ethics.

What gets me is that these vegetarians have had to go out of their way to be "philosophical" about this profound error. It's just like the entire animal rights movement in this regard -- even if they don't claim that animal have "rights." It's just like environmentalism, too. Our duties to the planet, to other "sentient beings," or whatever, yada, yada, yada. It's all anti-man, and certainly anti-ME.

Now, I'm not advocating "Neaderthin" diets or anything, and this drives my husband nuts when I say it, but think about it: australopithecines were vegetarians. Hominids ate meat. Notice the differences in their brains.

Accident? Or good, red-blooded carnivorous joy?

And, they should be advised to keep their GD hands off of my fur, too!!





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Post 27

Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 7:46pmSanction this postReply
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Scott said:
Joe is the most important person alive to the future of proper Objectivism.
... And I think that that is likely a true statement -- only time will tell. What can be said with an unshakeable finality, is that Joe is poised to be the most important person alive to the future of proper Objectivism. What can be said with an unshakeable finality, is that SOLOHQ is the most important website in the world today (where the foundation is correct, and dissenting voices are both heard AND intelligent). No other site has as much productive-of-value dissent -- as does SOLOHQ. This site literally bubbles over with 'creative destruction' in the realm of ideas. Nobody does it better.

Thank you, Joe (and Linz and Jeff), for undertaking such a grand achievement!
Ed




Post 28

Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 7:48pmSanction this postReply
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Well said Mr. Thompson.



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Post 29

Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 7:50pmSanction this postReply
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Warning - this thread is rapidly digressing into a vegetarian/ethical debate....be on the lookout for a pissing match...

Let's stick to the topic at hand: which is to salute Joe.  I don't know the man, but I enjoy his articles and posts....oh, and the website he helped create!  Nice to hear that he applies Objectivism positively in his life - that doesn't always seem to be the case with many who consider themselves O'ists.




Post 30

Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 7:51pmSanction this postReply
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Perhaps the meat-eating evolved off of eating sealife while on shorelines... then worked inland from there...
 And a craveat on chimps and such - remember, just as we have evolved over the millenias, so have all other living organisms, even if not to the degree of differing... thus not be surprised they eat meat at times... the issue is adaptability to surviving..




Post 31

Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 7:59pmSanction this postReply
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Let's stick to the topic at hand: which is to salute Joe.

I agree, I normally don't complain about the way topics evolve/devolve, but Joe has EARNED this, so let's give him his due as best we can.  Anything else is a slap in the face to a great tribute to a great man.




Post 32

Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 8:01pmSanction this postReply
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Pete,

Ha! No, if that were the case I would've already responded to Magenta Hornet. I've said my bit and don't intend to say any more on vegetarianism here... unless someone addresses me directly on the matter.

Joe,

Much thanks for being a thinker and helping to create this wonderful site

Sarah
Tangent Creator Extraordinaire



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Post 33

Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 8:31pmSanction this postReply
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Thank you Lindsay for this tribute.  You're a great friend and ally, and it means a lot coming from you.

Thanks to everyone else for your wonderful comments.  It's great to be praised by such a great group of people.  I read and appreciated each one.  Thank you.




Post 34

Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 9:17pmSanction this postReply
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Let's do a bit more applause-wise.

Bonk.

(standing ovation)

Michael





Post 35

Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 9:23pmSanction this postReply
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Cheers and whistles loudly ...
 
Joe, your achievement with SOLO is beyond measure. I'm very proud to be a part of it. That it was a night project undertaken while you were busy achieving success and riches with your day job makes it all the more remarkable. My hat's off to you.




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Post 36

Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 9:35pmSanction this postReply
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Andrew wrote: "Joe, your achievement with SOLO is beyond measure. I'm very proud to be a part of it. That it was a night project undertaken while you were busy achieving success and riches with your day job makes it all the more remarkable. My hat's off to you."

This is the kind of capitalist success I think Rand was fighting for. The ideal. Could Joe R. (and Linz, Jeff) have created SOLO to be this way if they answered to stockholders, special interest groups, etc.? Could they have maintained their vision with the need to answer to other's demand for maximum profit at the expense of the vision? I don't think so...Even in a case where the outside interest was Objectivist, could you imagine SOLO answering to Leonard Peikoff? The fact that this was a homegrown, Do it Yourself endeavor is what makes it so heartening.



Post 37

Friday, October 21, 2005 - 12:24amSanction this postReply
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Wonderful tribute, Lindsay.

I've never met Joe but in my correspondence with him he's always exhibited a clarity, honesty and humour that I prize dearly.

And long may it continue.

Ross

NB: I said:

"3. Secretly superstitious Lindsay wondering if anyone will notice when Daily Linz 13 fails to appear."

I hereby take this back... but no-one should stand close to Lindsay in a lightning storm... for a while :-)


(Edited by Ross Elliot
on 10/21, 12:27am)




Post 38

Friday, October 21, 2005 - 1:47pmSanction this postReply
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Joe,

SOLOHQ is a super achievement, both technically and in terms of what it is bringing about in the world of ideas.  It is a supreme example of what Man can accomplish at his best and is vital for the immediate Objectivist project (initiating a major course-correction in the trajectory of our faltering civilization.)

Congratulations, and thank you for what you have provided us!

-Bill




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Post 39

Saturday, October 22, 2005 - 8:18amSanction this postReply
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Thanks Joe. You introduced me to Objectivism (importanceofphilosophy.com), a collection of some of the greatest ideas ever generated by man. Your work significantly changed my life for the better. You are a modern day hero.
(Edited by Dean Michael Gores
on 10/22, 8:23am)




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