About
Content
Store
Forum

Rebirth of Reason
War
People
Archives
Objectivism

Post to this threadMark all messages in this thread as readMark all messages in this thread as unreadPage 0Page 1Forward one pageLast Page


Post 0

Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 6:24amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
I'm getting a page not found notice whenever I try to click on the article

Post 1

Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 6:44amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
wierd! I'll ask Joe to take a look!

Post 2

Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 7:59amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Edit the title to dump the smart quotes.  Use plain quotes or no quotes instead.

Post 3

Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 8:15amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Luke was right, and it should now be fixed!

Sanction: 4, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 4, No Sanction: 0
Post 4

Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 10:14amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Great, it works now


I think the best example of the left's hypocrisy is the "pro-choice" movement. Of course I'm all for abortion but like most of you the premise for my decision is based on individual rights, their's is completely subjective.

Whenever I hear those socialists scream "Keep your hands off my body" I just want to scream "Keep your hands off my money!!!"

Sanction: 4, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 4, No Sanction: 0
Post 5

Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 12:21pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Thank you for this beautifully reasoned argument that libertarians ought to mistrust the Left's pleadings on behalf of "civil liberties".

I never trust anything the Left proclaims, because they subordinate everything to their pursuit of power. They tell lies to achieve their goals, and they do so consciously, routinely, and without qualms or hesitation. They lie about global warming, AIDS, environmental hazards, history, and economics. They routinely engage in election fraud when they think they can get away with it. They tried to steal the election from George Bush in 2000, and when they failed turned around and accused Bush of stealing the election from them!

As Professor Machan points out, the notion that the Left is sympathetic to individual liberty collapses when one considers their strident unreasoning zeal in pursuit of collectivist goals such as environmentalism. For example, noxious weeds, which are difficult to kill and spread rapidly, are naturally cultivated on public lands--particularly National Forests, but also large tracts controlled by the Bureau of Land Management--that surround the headwaters of the rivers that flow down through the plains. The public lands empire serves as an excellent breeding ground for knap weed and leafy spurge, because no one has the incentive or can afford the cost to control these weeds over millions of acres of unowned and rugged terrain. The rivers that flow from these regions then carry the seeds of these noxious weeds downstream through the privately owned plains, where property owners struggle to eradicate them. Landowners are compelled by law to use ineffective herbicides near the muddy river, because the Greens claim to be paranoid about poisoning an occassional carp or sucker fish. 

About a year ago, I was spraying herbicides on noxious weeds on the banks of the Missouri River, using 24D, a relatively ineffective but legal herbicide. I glanced upstream and saw two canoes about 150 years away, each with two or three passengers. They looked like peas in a pod, each wearing the fashionable green-brown slouch felt hats so favored by environmentalists. I noticed they were sitting quietly, motionless in their canoes, watching me spray as though they were witnessing the commission of some grave atrocity against Nature. I wanted to ignore them, because I knew by their dress and the fact that they had time to float the river that they were Greens. However, I decided I had better be friendly, because I worried that if I rudely ignored them they'd make troubles for me with the weed control cops. So I waved.

Each floater raised his paddle over his head in a stiff-armed acknowlegement--a sort of militant Green Salute. Maybe I was slightly paranoid, but the gesture didn't seem relaxed and friendly. So I called out across the river: "Nice day for a float!". They didn't answer. They knew what I knew: I was unfriendly to their values, as they were to mine.


Post 6

Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 2:19pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Do liberals care for civil liberties? Well, do conservatives care for free enterprise? I think so. The sincerity of both is fairly high. It's just their competence is fairly low. I think Objectivists and other freedom-lovers should grab as many allies as we can get. Some of this Patriot Act stuff (ominous name, no?) is very scary. One thing is clear: the conservatives do not care much for civil liberty. Let's not alienate the liberals if we don't have to. 

Sanction: 5, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 5, No Sanction: 0
Post 7

Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 2:45pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
It's too late about alienating liberals--they are way over the top with their pursuit of power. Conservatives are often no better, especially when it comes to the religious right. That's the point--sadly we are alone in the fight for liberty.

Post 8

Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 4:10pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Matt Stone put it best...

"I ****ing hate conservatives. But I REALLY hate liberals"

But when it comes down to it, it often seems like few people in the mainstream really do value freedom.

---Landon


Post 9

Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 10:52amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Nice posting! You're right to criticize the left for their hypocritical defense of selective liberties. And, there's a very clear reason why this is the case: Their party is held together, not by an overarching philosophy of government and liberty, but by a hodge-podge conglomeration of special interests- all of which seek to rob or rule others for their own sake. Though, I would largely attribute the same attributes to the GOP- though their political consitituents are of a different variety, and slightly less hazardous to the ways of the Objectivist given a relatively more free-market mentality.

Sanction: 5, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 5, No Sanction: 0
Post 10

Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 3:58pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
That's what I was thinking too. Until the last time a large amount of Republicans got ellected. There is some hope in the Republican party but the truth is for the most part they have an underlying philosohpy (unlike the liberals) and it's slowly moving towards theocracy with a few free market measures thrown in when they seem to fit religious ideals.

Granted this is better than the philosophically ungrounded left which champions itself as a protector of personal freedom, who usually leads the pack at destroying it.

I'm used to the irony that the "free-market" republicans are usually behind increasing government and the champions of "personal liberty" are the ones legislating away our freedoms.

I don't think we need to be activly courting either side. The goal is better served making people realize what is flawed with the accepted norms in politics and giving them the tools and courage to change it.

---Landon


Post 11

Thursday, August 9, 2007 - 8:29pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Actually, liberals do support liberty. I'm a liberal. I have never granted the term to socialists.


Post 12

Friday, August 10, 2007 - 3:42pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Ron Paul 2008

Sanction: 18, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 18, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 18, No Sanction: 0
Post 13

Wednesday, June 12, 2013 - 12:53pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
The passage of time has proven Professor Machan to be dead on right. Liberals screamed bloody murder over Bush's handling of civil liberties (Gitmo detainees, Patriot Act, wire tapping, etc.), but look how luke warm, if at all, is their outrage over Obama's violation of civil liberties - which he has taken to all new heights with his NSA examination of millions of Americans email and phone records, his examination of AP reporters phone records, his continuation of Bush's Gitmo procedures, and his use of the IRA to intimidate and punish political enemies.

In general, liberals really don't care about liberty.

Sanction: 16, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 16, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 16, No Sanction: 0
Post 14

Wednesday, June 12, 2013 - 8:46pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Will say anything...will do anything...will turn themselves inside out with glaring contradictions and double standards...to get what they want, which is paramount to not only them, but they believe, the future of all mankind--whether mankind wants it or not.



Post 15

Wednesday, June 12, 2013 - 10:00pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
If I were to sum up what I think is on the average Democrat's mind (in regard to the invasions of privacy, treatment of prisoners, etc.), it can be expressed as follows: What Bush did was unforgivable; what Obama is doing is permissible.

In truth, and in general, Democrats and Republicans, statists all. Different goals, same means, the weight of the state.
(Edited by Kyle Jacob Biodrowski on 6/12, 10:08pm)


Post 16

Friday, June 14, 2013 - 8:08pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Kyle,
... same means, the weight of the state
Great way to put it: the weight of the state. There is something about power asymmetry: it inevitably leads to corruption. When government wasn't so big and heavy and powerful -- such as in 1969 -- then corruption wasn't as common. From Beck's Broke (p. 202), one can glean that corrupt, special-interest lobbyists spent $9560 per lawmaker back then -- but in 2009, such ilk spent $6,400,000 per lawmaker (670 times more than in the past).

One solution to corruption is to try to elect politicians who can be trusted with immense power over the lives of others. A better solution is to reduce or eradicate the existence of any immense power over the lives of others (e.g., by implementing monarchy, which costs less than $1 Trillion each year to operate).

Ed

(Edited by Ed Thompson on 6/14, 8:09pm)


Post 17

Friday, June 14, 2013 - 9:16pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Ed,

Monarchy?

Post 18

Saturday, June 15, 2013 - 8:44amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
This damn, on-the-fly spell-check! It doesn't recognize "minarchy" and auto-replaces it with "monarchy"!

Ed


Post 19

Saturday, June 15, 2013 - 8:48amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Another solution to corruption is to stay completely blind to its genetic origin (big government power) and to just try to tackle each corruption issue one-by-one as they pop up. This is like playing the game "Whack-a-mole" where whacking one mole only serves to give rise to 2 more of them. Fighting corruption head-on is not the answer.

Small government is.

Ed


Post to this threadPage 0Page 1Forward one pageLast Page


User ID Password or create a free account.