About
Content
Store
Forum

Rebirth of Reason
War
People
Archives
Objectivism

Post to this threadMark all messages in this thread as readMark all messages in this thread as unreadPage 0Page 1Forward one pageLast Page


Post 0

Monday, March 3, 2008 - 3:27pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit

Great job, Ed.  Wow.  I am impressed.  Just putting all these quotes together was a daunting task, but you also nailed the fundamental errors with each.  Very incisive.

 

“We” are just about ready to pitch this to Random House.

 

What’s staggering is that we started out in 428 B.C.E. with the belief that reason limits our ability to perceive reality and gradually progressed over thousands of years to the present day wisdom that reason limits our ability to perceive reality.


Post 1

Monday, March 3, 2008 - 4:11pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Is called - 'the theory of cycles'... [snort]

Post 2

Monday, March 3, 2008 - 4:53pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
From the article:

Hume’s thinking error:
Erroneous belief (rather than a “knowledge”) that if you’re not omniscient, then you can’t really know anything at all.

response:

Nonsense: Hume did NOT deny knowledge there are anywhere else. He denied -certainty- except for propositions expressing the relationship of ideas (analytic propositions). You can be sure 1 + 1 = 2 (usual meanings assumed). You can't be sure if you have passed gas in the last hour. You might have misremembered.

Bob Kolker


Post 3

Monday, March 3, 2008 - 7:24pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
[deleted double post]
(Edited by Ed Thompson on 3/03, 7:30pm)


Sanction: 4, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 4, No Sanction: 0
Post 4

Monday, March 3, 2008 - 7:27pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Bobby "Automaton" K.,

=================
You can't be sure if you have passed gas in the last hour. You might have misremembered.
=================

Now you're wrestling with Descartes' "ohh ... you can't be too sure it's real!" demon.

This kind of general skepticism -- not a specific skepticism, mind you! -- this kind of general skepticism that we can't really be too sure about things because ... er ... ah ... well ... because we're not omniscient creatures, is just bogus hogwash.

But ... but ... but what if we've MISREMEMBERED?? Isn't it "logically" true that we can MISREMEMBER?? And ... and ... and you can't prove-the-negative that we DIDN'T misremember!

And ... and ... and what about if there's an evil demon deceiving us from another realm?? Huh?? Isn't it "logically" true that -- if there were said demon -- that we'd be deceived by it without detecting it??

And ... and ... and what about our minds?? Isn't it true that Kant said that we process information?? And if it's true that we process the information istead of receiving it "wholesale" by "passive osmosis," then ...

Bob, all I can suggest is that you take a good look at a "general skepticism" essay online (I prefer to call it arbitrary skepticism) -- and that you pick up and read (with the express purpose of understanding what is written in it) Rand's "Introduction to Objectivist Epistemology."

I'm "skeptical" about if any ground could be made in our mutual understanding of each other's words -- if one of these 2 tasks is not first performed by yourself.

:-)

Ed
(Edited by Ed Thompson on 3/03, 7:32pm)


Sanction: 5, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 5, No Sanction: 0
Post 5

Tuesday, March 4, 2008 - 7:13amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit

On the brighter side:

 

Rational or reasonable is everywhere synonymous with consistent or logical, as also conversely. Indeed logic is simply the natural method of the faculty of reason itself, expressed as a system of rules. Therefore those expressions (rational and logical) are related to each other as practice to theory. In precisely this sense we understand by a rational way of acting one that is entirely consistent, starts from general concepts, and is guided by abstract thoughts as resolutions; but not one that is determined by the fleeting impression of the moment.” —Arthur Schopenhauer, On the Fourfold Root of the Principle of Sufficient Reason (1813)

 

 

“Rational animals are conscious, rule-following, intentional (that is, possessing capacities for object-directed cognition and purposive action), volitional (possessing a capacity for willing), self-evaluating, self-justifying, self-legislating, reasons-giving, reasons-sensitive, and reflectively self-conscious—or, for short, normative-reflective—animals, whose inner and outer lives alike are sharply constrained by their possession of concepts expressing strict modality. Modality in the philosophical sense comprises the concepts of necessity, possibility, and contingency. Strict modality, in turn, includes the concepts of logical necessity (truth in all logically possible worlds), epistemic necessity (certainty or indubitability), and deontic necessity (unconditional obligation or ‘the ought’). So, to put my first central claim yet another way, logic is cognitively constructed by all and only those normative-reflective animals who are also in possession of concepts expressing strict modality.” —Robert Hanna, Rationality and Logic (2006)

 

 

“Rationality provides us with the (potential) power to investigate and discover anything and everything; it enables us to control and direct our behavior through reasons and the utilization of principles.” —Robert Nozick, The Nature of Rationality (1993).

 

 

 

Other contemporary works on rationality:

 

The Architecture of Reason: The Structure and Substance of Rationality (2001)

Robert Audi

 

Rationality in Action (2001)

John Searle


Post 6

Tuesday, March 4, 2008 - 12:15pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Thanks very much for the additional material, Stephen. However, I seem to have noted an imperfection in the way that one of the professional philosophers laid out his case:

==============
Strict modality, in turn, includes the concepts of logical necessity (truth in all logically possible worlds), epistemic necessity (certainty or indubitability), and deontic necessity (unconditional obligation or ‘the ought’).

So, to put my first central claim yet another way, logic is cognitively constructed by all and only those normative-reflective animals who are also in possession of concepts expressing strict modality.”
================

In a strict sense, the "concepts" of "logical necessity" and "deontic necessity" are not really concepts -- but anti-concepts.

Though it may still be presumed that normative-reflective animals in possession of these anti-concepts are the kind of animals which construct logic ...

Ed

Sanction: 5, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 5, No Sanction: 0
Post 7

Tuesday, March 4, 2008 - 4:14pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit

The quote from Robert Hanna:

 

...Modality in the philosophical sense comprises the concepts of necessity, possibility, and contingency. Strict modality, in turn, includes the concepts of logical necessity (truth in all logically possible worlds), epistemic necessity (certainty or indubitability), and deontic necessity (unconditional obligation or ‘the ought’).

 

This terminology (logical “necessity, possibility, and contingency”) belongs to so-called modal logic, and that whole way of thinking is fundamentally wrong.  Modal logic is an outgrowth of the analytic-synthetic dichotomy, which Objectivism completely rejects.  In this view, “necessary truths” are limited to statements true “by definition,” and everything else is “accidental” because we can "conceive" of it as being different.  The notions of logical necessity, possibility and contingency derive from the view that certain things “happen” to be true but “could have been otherwise.”   This is only true with respect to the man-made, not metaphysical reality. 

 

Per the Law of Identity, the way things are is inherent in the nature of the things that exist. To speak of “other possible worlds” is to adopt a Platonic/religious world-view, and that is obviously a complete departure from Objectivism.  Classifying logical truths based on their alleged “contingency” or “necessity” is not consistent with a proper view of rationality.

 

I would characterize “animals, whose inner and outer lives alike are sharply constrained by their possession of concepts expressing strict modality” as skeptics or worse.


Post 8

Tuesday, March 4, 2008 - 7:54pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Dennis,

Either great minds think alike, or we are 2 dudes that defy all probability (by arriving at the same intellectual points -- though sometimes via different trains of thought).

When I witness the logic you have mustered, it makes me want to catch-up.

;-)

Ed
[okay, that one was pretty dry ... I know]

Post 9

Tuesday, March 4, 2008 - 11:13pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit

Ed,

 

Thanks, but considering the beautifully eloquent job you did on this article, and all the work you evidently invested in the project, my post was little more than a footnote.

 

[In other words:  “Aw, shucks.  Weren’t nothin’.”  It’s hard to be humble when you’re so f-ing brilliant, ain’t it?  But we try.]  J

 


Post 10

Wednesday, March 5, 2008 - 7:08amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit

 

Check them out:

 

Modal Logic and Deontic Logic

 

Existence and Logic

One, Two, Three, Four, Five, Six


Post 11

Wednesday, March 5, 2008 - 9:14amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Thanks for the further links, Stephen.

I will take some time to examine them for the kind of imperfect thinking (found in Hanna) which I have already noted.

;-)

Ed


Post 12

Wednesday, March 5, 2008 - 1:43pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit

Here is an excerpt from one of Stephen’s links in which he comments on the value of modal logic:

 

Our standard modern logic has come to be called classical logic. This logic expanded and revised the logic of Aristotle as it had been developed up to the time of Kant. Classical logic, as taught in texts such as R. L. Simpson’s Essentials of Symbolic Logic and W. V. O. Quine’s Methods of Logic, is the culmination of innovations by Boole, De Morgan, Jevons, Peirce, and above all, Frege (1879).


 

Standard modern logic is called classical to distinguish it from extensions of it in modal logics and from rivals of it, such as intuitionist logic, many-valued logics, paraconsistent logics, fuzzy logics, quantum logics, and relevance logics. This last and modal logic, as well as the ways in which classical logic improves on Aristotelian logic (e.g., existential fallacy), stand out as promising productive integration with Rand’s metaphysics and conception of logic… [Boydstun 6-28-07]

 

I am not sufficiently knowledgeable to judge the relative intellectual merits of all the individuals Stephen lists above.  Boole and others may have made some worthwhile contributions in the field of mathematics.  Pierce, despite being a founder of pragmatism, may have done some legitimate work in that field as well. 

 

W.V. Quine was a notorious pragmatist and miserable skeptic whose twisted views helped foster the enormous destructiveness of postmodern relativism.  To cite any text he might have written as in any way an improvement on Aristotle is hysterical.  The “mathematical logic” of Gottlob Frege was further developed by Rudolf Carnap, who seems to be the culprit responsible for “possible world semantics.”  This is the approach of evaluating the “modalities” of necessity and possibility for logical statements across a range of Liebnizian possible worlds.

 

Here is an excerpt from the first link Stephen provides (regarding “possible worlds semantics”):

 

Even in modal logic, one may wish to restrict the range of possible worlds which are relevant in determining whether A is true at a given world. For example, I might say that it is necessary for me to pay my bills, even though I know full well that there is a possible world where I fail to pay them. In ordinary speech, the claim that A is necessary does not require the truth of A in all possible worlds, but rather only in a certain class of worlds which I have in mind (for example, worlds where I avoid penalties for failure to pay).

 

This is the way modern logicians go about setting up their “formal semantics” for defining the validity of arguments, by assessing the “truth behavior” of a sentence within a range of “possible worlds.”  Stephen may think it worthwhile to try to integrate such “counterfactuals” and “frames” and the rest of this [expletive deleted] with Objectivism.  I do not.

 

This is precisely the sort of utterly wrongheaded “thinking” that gives rationality a bad name.


Post 13

Wednesday, March 5, 2008 - 2:45pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Unfortunately, Dennis, this does entail following mathematics, which does, by formulations, allow for 'other possible worlds', thus making this an inevitable in 'formal thinking', even as in reality there is only one world - this one, the one that is, not of any 'maybe's......

and this is so because mathematics has become not a science of measurement, but a game unto itself, its measuring being among its own formulations, not reality.....

(Edited by robert malcom on 3/05, 2:47pm)


Post 14

Wednesday, March 5, 2008 - 4:35pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit

Robert M.,

 

...mathematics has become not a science of measurement, but a game unto itself, its measuring being among its own formulations, not reality.....

 

As little as I know about the science of mathematics, I can say that, like any science, its’ axioms, definitions, and principles should be based on induction, and that would exclude all the speculative nonsense about “possible worlds.”  Most present day mathematical theorizing seems to be based almost purely on deductive inference, and that’s no doubt a huge part of the problem.


Post 15

Wednesday, March 5, 2008 - 4:50pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit

I entertained the idea of posting this bugger as an RoR article – but decided against making it THAT readable!

 

For those who find themselves to be in possession of the wherewithal to get through it, it effectively reverses 21 centuries of wrong-headed thought regarding the art and science of logic (which some might find as something of tremendous value). Check it out …

 

 


 

The Fallacy of the Existential Fallacy (an “anti-fallacy”)

 

 

PROBLEM (a wonderfully-illustrative instance of the thinking-error entitled: Existential Fallacy)

 

Barry Miller, a philosophy editor for Stanford wrote a piece that’s retrievable from:

 

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/existence/ [retrieved 5 March 2008]

==========

… Unlike the Frege-Russell thesis, Aquinas did not regard these three uses of ‘is’ as being totally unrelated.

 

A crucial difference between Aquinas and Avicenna, however, lies in the distinction he draws between two existential uses of ‘is’. In one of them, ‘is’ is taken to express the being of whatever falls under the Aristotelian categories, whether it be of substance or of any of the accidents. As used in this way, ‘is’ refers to that by which something is actual. In the second existential sense, however, it expresses the truth of a proposition. Following Geach, these two existential uses might be called the ‘actuality’ and the ‘there-is’ uses respectively. Interestingly, the actuality use is said to occur not only in such propositions as ‘Socrates exists’ but, surprisingly to modern ears, in such propositions as ‘Socrates is a man’. Indeed, it occurs in any of those predicates that respond to the question ‘Quid est …..?’ (‘What is ….?), and which Aquinas calls substantial. It is in this use that ‘is’ is taken to express the being of whatever falls under the Aristotelian categories.

 

In its there-is use, ‘is’ is said to express the truth of a proposition, and to answer the question ‘An est…?’ (‘Is there any such thing as ….?’), and which Aquinas calls accidental. In these cases ‘is’ has the dual function not only of linking subject and predicate, but also of expressing the truth claim that is being made thereby.

 

As for the ambiguity of ‘is’, Aquinas' position would seem to be:

1. There is systematic ambiguity between the uses of ‘is’ to express the actuality of what falls under any of the ten categories.


2. There is no ambiguity at all between the actuality use of ‘is’ and its use in substantial predication: they are the same.


3. There is no ambiguity at all between the there-is use of ‘is’ and its use in accidental predication: they are the same.


4. There is systematic ambiguity between the actuality and the there-is senses of ‘is’, and this is founded on the supposition that the truth of what we say is founded upon the actual existence of what we talk about.
==========





 

Recap:

It’s often assumed that when we talk about things that they really do exist (in the extra-mental, or worldly, sense). For example, unicorns are things that we talk about, but that don’t really exist – not in the worldly sense of the term.

 

If we accept our own revisions of the things that Aristotle said about the relations of things which we talk about (if we revise his Square of Opposition and, in doing so, make it incoherent), and then we accept the unnecessary ambiguity that we’ve produced by our mis-translation of Aristotle in this way, then it “seems like” traditional logic introduces “systematic ambiguity” or an incoherence that we must then take pains to overcome by “inventing” other kinds of logics – like “modal” and “deontic” logics.

 

SOLUTION


My personal response to this wrong-headed thinking of Aquinas, as propagated by Barry Miller?

 

Numbers 2 and 3 are uncontroversial. Numbers 1 and 4 can be collapsed into an understanding that is rendered irrelevant by a return to the original wording (unpopularly championed by Abelard) of Aristotle's O – the “particular negative” – in his Square of Opposition from the contemporary misrepresentation of: "There exists some P which is not Q" to: "Not all P are Q." This return to what Aristotle got right in the first place (and what was defended by Abelard) abrogates the responsibility of checking for existential import in order to alleviate ambiguity. Indeed, Terence Parsons from UCLA has already been done this ON THE STANFORD WEBSITE! …

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/square/ [retrieved 5 March 2008]

==========

This entry traces the historical development of the Square of Opposition

 

For most of this history, logicians assumed that negative particular propositions (“Some S is not P”) are vacuously true if their subjects are empty. This validates the logical laws embodied in the diagram, and preserves the doctrine against modern criticisms. Certain additional principles (“contraposition” and “obversion”) were sometimes adopted along with the Square, and they genuinely yielded inconsistency. By the nineteenth century an inconsistent set of doctrines was widely adopted. Strawson’s 1952 attempt to rehabilitate the Square does not apply to the traditional doctrine; it does salvage the nineteenth century version but at the cost of yielding inferences that lead from truth to falsity when strung together. …

==========





 

 

[a paraphrased modern (non-Aristotelian; non-traditional) version of a “square of opposition”]

 

A … Every S is P … Universal Affirmative

E … No S is P … Universal Negative

I … Some S is P … Particular Affirmative

O … Some S is not P … Particular Negative

… Why does the traditional square need revising at all? The argument is a simple one:[2]

Suppose that ‘S’ is an empty term; it is true of nothing. Then the I form: ‘Some S is P’ is false. But then its contradictory E form: ‘No S is P’ must be true. But then the subaltern O form: ‘Some S is not P’ must be true. But that is wrong, since there aren’t any Ss. …

… Ackrill’s translation contains something a bit remarkable: Aristotle’s articulation of the O form is not the familiar ‘Some S is not P’ or one of its variants; it is rather ‘Not every S is P’. With this wording, Aristotle’s doctrine automatically escapes the modern criticism. (This holds for his views throughout De Interpretatione.[5]) For assume again that ‘S’ is an empty term, and suppose that this makes the I form ‘Some S is P’ false. Its contradictory, the E form: ‘No S is P’, is thus true, and this entails the O form in Aristotle’s formulation: ‘Not every S is P’, which must therefore be true. When the O form was worded ‘Some S is not P’ this bothered us, but with it worded ‘Not every S is P’ it seems plainly right. Recall that we are granting that ‘Every S is P’ has existential import, and so if ‘S’ is empty the A form must be false. But then ‘Not every S is Pshould be true, as Aristotle’s square requires.

[a paraphrased traditional (Aristotelian) Square of Opposition]

 

A … Every S is P … Universal Affirmative

E … No S is P … Universal Negative

I … Some S is P … Particular Affirmative

O … Not every S is P … Particular Negative

 

==========

On this view affirmatives have existential import, and negatives do not—a point that became elevated to a general principle in late medieval times.[6] The ancients thus did not see the incoherence of the square as formulated by Aristotle because there was no incoherence to see.

==========





 

Recap:

Don’t f#$& with Aristotle (it’ll get you creating “logical” castles in the sky).

 

;-)

 

Ed



Sanction: 5, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 5, No Sanction: 0
Post 16

Wednesday, March 5, 2008 - 10:46pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit

Ed’s Restored Aristotelian Square of Opposition

 

A…..Every S is P …........ Universal Affirmative

E … No S is P …............ Universal Negative

I … .Some S is P …........ Particular Affirmative

O.…Not every S is P … Particular Negative

 

Brilliant, Ed!  (And I do mean brilliant!)  Just to clarify my understanding, let’s endow these symbols with existential referents.

 

S=Attempts to discount the real world by discounting Aristotle

P=Valid attempts to discount the real world by discounting Aristotle

 

Hey.  That’s easy.  The particular affirmative is false, so the universal negative must be true.  No S is P.”

 

That was fun.  Let’s try another one.

 

S= Worthwhile innovations to logic in the last thousand years

P= Great Philosophical Wisdom

 

Well, well.  Even though S is obviously empty,  Not every S is P” is clearly true!  Eureka!

 

You’re right!  It works!. 

 

One more:

S=Alleged innovations of “modernized” approaches to logic

P=Bullshit

 
That’s the easiest yet:  Every S is P !!!! 


Post 17

Thursday, March 6, 2008 - 12:45pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Thanks, Dennis!

I love your examples, too!

Ed
[founder of ERASO (Ed’s Restored Aristotelian Square of Opposition)]

;-)

Post 18

Friday, March 7, 2008 - 7:03amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Ed: You performed a wonderful job, a real "tour de force" of the human intellect! I wish I could have done it. Congratulations!

This chronology proves most eloquently that Ayn Rand travelled a completely different road from the one taken by other wrongly called "philosophers", and provides the reason why teachers and professors in general block Rand's ideas to freely reach the curriculum of schools and universities, as this would mean for them to have to change the philosophical teachings they have picked up all their life, together with what all this would mean for their intellectual and financial positions, besides the then resulting need to have to change their general view of life.


Post 19

Friday, March 7, 2008 - 8:46amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Thanks for the thoughtful comments, Manfred.

It is a tragic joke how, after traveling down a wrong path, there are many folks -- even highly-popular thinkers -- who will refuse to double-back to the right path, because of the effort it would take to deal well with reality like that. They prefer error to effort, even an effort with proven pay-offs.

Ed

Post to this threadPage 0Page 1Forward one pageLast Page


User ID Password or create a free account.