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Tuesday, April 21, 2009 - 3:21amSanction this postReply
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Mine was the first sanction, I think.  I am somewhat dismayed not to see more comments.  It is easy to argue against that with which you disagree.  It is somewhat harder to be poetic about euphoric concordoria.  That may be a realistic default as sales and marketing professionals say that people are motivated more by fear of loss than hope for gain.

David Kelley's lectures on Induction make the same general points as Loberfeld but in other words and with other examples.  "Have you ever had a dream that was so intense that you thought that it was real?....  So, how do you know that you are not dreaming now?"  The reply is that you know because you know.  When you wake up from the dream, you  know that you were dreaming. 

Allow me to offer this.  The first time you drive a nail with a hammer might be an experiment.  It might not go as you intend.  You cannot predict the outcome.  Once you do that, though, every successive hammer-and-nail experience is not an inductive test of reality.  Even if you drive the nail offcenter and bend it, you know exactly what happened.  You are not confused about the nature of hammers and nails.  You don't look around for an unseen cause.  You don't poll your neighbors for their opinions.  The first time you drive a nail with a hammer, you prove that hammering nails works.

 Kelley uses driving a car as an example.  Post-modernists who claim that all knowledge is only a social narrative drive their cars like rational-empiricists.  When approaching an intersection with a red light traffic signal, they do not poll for opinions. 


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Tuesday, April 21, 2009 - 3:17pmSanction this postReply
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Nope, my sanction was the first.  Clicked right after I posted it. :cp

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Post 2

Tuesday, April 21, 2009 - 7:09pmSanction this postReply
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One of the failures in epistemological thinking that I've noted is that of failing to weight outcomes.  Of course, we could be dreaming, hallucinating, stuck in an epistemology machine, etc.  How can you disprove the possibility?  You can't.  However, as in Pascal's Wager, different assumptions have different weights, depending upon our valuative heirarchy. 

(Pascal was wrong in his analysis, because he failed to balance the infinite rewards and punishments of Heaven and Hell with the infinite possible number of hypothetical differing Gods with all sorts of conflicting demands.)  

When we decide to stop for a red light, it's within the context of a vast assumed value structure.  There are times when we wouldn't stop, as in if we were being chased by gang members firing a machine gun at us.  The risk of running the red light and possibly having a serious accident would be outweighed by the other concern.  However, we don't generally question whether the light is actually red, or even there at all, or whether if we just kept going, we might simply sail on into a glorious wish-fulfillment fantasy.  Each of us has plenty of inductive experience to the effect that the payoff of such an attitude is chancey at best.

Assuming that you are awake, not hallucinating and in contact with a real reality, not someone's simulation, has the payoff that if you're correct in that assumption, then you are much more likely to achieve what you want than if you assume the contrary and act as though your actions have no real consequences.  If you are incorrect, and in fact are dreaming, for example, the consequences are generally minimal.

We make a huge number of explicit and implicit assumptions, based on both induction  and deduction, because of the need to act.  Each of these assumptions is inherently a gamble, based on the weighting of many other assumptions.  But it's not arbitrary.  Or so we assume - because the contrary assumption, that it is arbrary, leads nowhere.  Once again, decision theory rules.


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Saturday, April 25, 2009 - 1:42pmSanction this postReply
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I have nothing to add other than to thank you all, as all the arguments offered by Barry, Michael, and Phil are good ones for the topic.

Jacob Hamilton Moore


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Post 4

Saturday, May 2, 2009 - 12:33pmSanction this postReply
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The alternatives are not between an infinite regress and logical circularity. An Axiom is neither. In this context an Axiom needs to be self-evident. Well, what could be more self evident than the evidence of our senses. If one were to ask: "How can we trust our senses?", my response is that their reliability is implicit in everything we do, even our attempts to question their reliability. And, the proof of their reliability is that we are not starving and shivering to death in caves.


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Sunday, May 3, 2009 - 10:03amSanction this postReply
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Phil wrote,
One of the failures in epistemological thinking that I've noted is that of failing to weight outcomes. Of course, we could be dreaming, hallucinating, stuck in an epistemology machine, etc. How can you disprove the possibility? You can't.
Yes, you can. That assumption that you could be dreaming, hallucinating, etc. commits the fallacy of the stolen concept.

A dream or hallucination is understood in contradistinction to an awareness of the real world. If you can't know what an awareness of the real world is, you can't understand a dream or hallucination, in which case, you can't logically posit the possibility that your present experience could be a dream or hallucination. The concept of a dream or hallucination logically and genetically depends on the concept of the real world from which it is intended to be distinguished.

I.e., the real world is what I'm experiencing right now as I type this post; a dream is what I experienced last night while asleep. To assume that the former could be the latter obliterates any recognizable distinction between them while simultaneously depending on that distinction.

- Bill

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Tuesday, May 5, 2009 - 8:36pmSanction this postReply
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However, if you were asleep and dreaming, would you be aware that you were asleep and dreaming?  When I'm dreaming, it is only very rarely that I am other than totally convinced that I am awake.  When I do recognize that I'm dreaming, it is also usually the prelude to awakening.  However, I frequently have very vivid and detailed dreams that involve mentally generated characters of other people, usually people who I have never met any counterpart in real life.  Right now, I am convinced that I'm awake.  But I was convinced I was awake many times before, when in fact I was dreaming.

The fact that a dream is a "real dream," and implies that there is an existence independent of my consciousness is another issue entirely.  Of course that is true.  Stating so, however, does nothing whatsoever to convince me that I couldn't possibly be dreaming a "real dream" right now.  However, I will behave on the assumption that it is not a dream, because behaving otherwise is totally irrational, unless there is clear evidence that it is a dream - as in the rare lucid dream. 

But then, I've been convinced of many things over my life that turned out to be errors...

Perhaps you have always been right?

If not, then how do you integrate the fact of your own fallibility into an epistemological framework NOT based on decision theory - the rational weighing of risks?

;->


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Wednesday, May 6, 2009 - 12:12amSanction this postReply
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I can only know that I was deceived by a dream into thinking I was awake by recognizing that I am not now dreaming. I can only know that I was deceived, deluded, or in error by recognizing a true state of affairs, one in which I am not deceived, deluded or in error. Recognition of error presupposes a recognition of the truth, without which it would be impossible.

How do I know that I am not dreaming right now? reduces to how do I know what constitutes a dream versus what constitutes being awake? If I can't know the former, then I can't know the latter, in which case, I can't legitimately posit the possibility that I could now be dreaming.

It is rational to recognize that I was deceived or mistaken in the past. It is not rational to conclude that what I now recognize as true could nevertheless be false, because doing so undercuts all of my conclusions, including the conclusion that my recognition of the truth could itself be mistaken.

- Bill
(Edited by William Dwyer on 5/06, 12:14am)


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Thursday, May 7, 2009 - 8:35pmSanction this postReply
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"It is not rational to conclude that what I now recognize as true could nevertheless be false, because doing so undercuts all of my conclusions, including the conclusion that my recognition of the truth could itself be mistaken."

Oddly, I don't seem to have that problem.  Perhaps you are wrong.  You might want to check out basic decision theory. 


Post 9

Friday, May 8, 2009 - 2:36pmSanction this postReply
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Induction needs no "defense." It certainly does not need a general philosophical "defense." Start with the premise that you identify a class of experiences as "induction." You explain the experiences that fit your definition of the word. If the word is known already then you have to explain how your meaning is not magnetic induction or mathematical induction.

If someone has a problem with your assertion, let them state it. You may reply. And they may rebut. Et cetera ad infinitum if you wish.

You might now gather all such objections to your theory, and deal with them, singly or in groups, or in toto. (Yes, that is an example of induction.) However, it is impossible and unnecessary to address every imaginable objection.

You can, indeed, set the limits of your knowledge. You can identify tests that it might fail. Then test.

All of that being as it may, to say that induction needs a defense is to grant the premise, to beg the question.


(Edited by Michael E. Marotta on 5/08, 2:37pm)


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Tuesday, August 13, 2013 - 5:50pmSanction this postReply
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Infinite regress arises as follows: If a belief claims validation by a supporting argument, what justifies the support? Where and how does the chain of justifications stop? If one attempts to provide reasons for the supporting argument then an infinite regress can be forced by anyone who presses for more supporting statements which in turn demand justification. It appears that this can only be avoided by an arbitrary decision to stop the regress at some stage and settle on a dogmatic belief at that point.


The dilemma of the infinite regress arises from the widespread assumption that beliefs are only rational or valid if indeed they are positively (certainly) justified. The solution that is offered by Karl Popper and his late colleague William W. Bartley is to abandon the quest for positive justification. Instead we should settle for a critical preference for one option rather than others, in the light of arguments and evidence offered to that point. This stance allows for the revision of preferences in the light of new evidence or arguments, for unconscious acceptance of tacit beliefs (for the moment) and for the uncritical acceptance of beliefs that are not regarded as problematic (again for the moment). This appears to be a simple, commonsense position but it defies the dominant traditions of Western thought which are mostly concerned with theories of justification.



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