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Friday, January 14, 2011 - 11:58pmSanction this postReply
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If we recall that government is a group of individuals to whom a certain social role has been delegated--namely, the role of securing the rights of the citizenry--the claim that government owns our lives and resources means nothing else but that these individuals in government own our lives and resources.
Great distillation.

An essential aspect of any bona fide moral position is that it must be practiced voluntarily, not because someone--e. g., government--holds a gun to one’s head and coerces one to do what is right.
It must be that many of these authoritarians believe that only rulers can be good or bad, but that citizens -- being perpetually-ignorant infantiles locked-up inside of private prisons of unexplained and unexplainable arrested development-- cannot be good or bad (just like real infants can't be good or bad). But that is not how they respond to the actions of recalcitrant citizens. Instead, they moralize.

They seem to want it both ways.

Ed


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Monday, January 17, 2011 - 10:01amSanction this postReply
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Yesterday (1/16/11) I was watching Fareed Zakaria's GPS program on CNN and noticed how he kept referring to the "grown ups" in China and elsewhere, people, supposedly, who are fit to rule. Interesting and revealing--so by this account there are in these countries those who are grown up and thus authorized to rule and there are the rest of us who aren't grown up and are only fit to be ruled. And this from a Harvard educated media guy! (I have liked some of his stuff--his The Future of Freedom is a book in which he sensibly distinguishes between liberal and illiberal democracies--but more and more he has turned into a snooty elitist who appears to have the ambition to join the ruling class!) There are so many fallacies in this kind of thinking and talking it is difficult to know where to begin criticizing it but just for a start who will choose the people qualified to be part of the grown ups and those who will not. Will there be even more grown up grown ups doing the picking? And so on, ad infinitum?
(Edited by Machan on 1/17, 10:04am)


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Monday, January 17, 2011 - 2:28pmSanction this postReply
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Why, just as 'some of us' supposedly have 'aesthetic sensibilities', so too, wouldn't 'some of us' also have 'elitist sensibilities' ? ;-)

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Monday, January 17, 2011 - 4:55pmSanction this postReply
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Why am I asked this question? Have I signed up for some of us having aesthetic sensibilities?

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Wednesday, January 19, 2011 - 6:58pmSanction this postReply
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Do we and what we own belong to government to do with as government officials believe? But isn’t that slavery?

So, are you arguing that any forcible taxation or fees, money taken without our consent, is slavery? If so, wouldn't abolishing that practice end government as we now know it? Or are you arguing that a "government" funded entirely by voluntary donations, or by fees for services voluntarily subscribed to (or declined in their entirety) is a form of minarchism rather than anarchism?

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Wednesday, January 19, 2011 - 7:57pmSanction this postReply
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The first set of rules that anarchists choose to rebel against are the rules of logic.

Dr. Machan says "...we and what we own..." - implying a totality. And it is the totality of ownership that justifies the concept of slavery. If there is any doubt about him meaning a totality, you could just look at the article where he says things like, "If my life doesn’t belong to me..." and where he talks about owning our "kidneys or eyes."

But Jim comes along and ignores the obvious issue of totality and instead comes up with the concept of "any" despite having to pull it out of thin air. All of a sudden, at least in Jim's mind, "any" tax, no matter how small, makes the taxpayer a slave.

Words have meaning (even when anarchists choose to misuse them).



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Wednesday, January 19, 2011 - 8:14pmSanction this postReply
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Steve -- so if someone owns 99% of your life and possessions, but you are free to do as you wish with the remaining 1% of your time and money, that isn't slavery?

If the government tells me I have to serve on a jury for little or no pay, or else, and then they lock me and the rest of the jury in a room during deliberations and refuse us access to the outside world, that isn't slavery for the time I am so conscripted?

Really?

Perhaps that wasn't quite where Tibor Machan was going with his reasoning, but I was taking the narrow case you mentioned -- complete and utter submission -- and broadening it to include somewhat less complete submission.

I have heard a sitting U.S. Congressman (Ed Case) respond to a question I posed to him at a town hall forum with the assertion that lowering taxes was a form of government spending -- which logically implies that, in his mind, ALL that you produce belongs to the government, and any that they hand back to you for your personal use is a form of benevolence that they are not obliged to do.

How is that not slavery? Does the fact that someone who asserts that he is your master and owns everything you produce, but he chooses to give some to you, make this not slavery?

If a "slave" in the pre-War South was allowed a few hours off a week to work for others, and was allowed to keep some of that money, are you really saying he wasn't really a slave because he had that brief respite from total subjugation?

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Wednesday, January 19, 2011 - 8:32pmSanction this postReply
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Slavery is ownership - doesn't matter if the 'owner' specifically directs every moment of the slaves life or not.

A child is directed by his parents but that doesn't make the child a slave.

A mugging victim isn't a slave to the mugger.

I'm not a slave even though I've paid taxes. No one owns me.

If someone asserts they own all of you, as well as all that you have, and that they can tell you what to do and even sell you. THEN you are a slave. Slavery is a system where humans are treated as property. That is different than theft which makes you victim - not a slave, or extortion which makes you a victim - not a slave, or taxation which can be fair or unfair - but does not make you a slave.

Words have meaning.
------------------

Look at the way you answered my post. I wrote about the difference between 'totality' and 'any' - that was the heart of the logical flaw in your argument and the reason that it was inappropriate to use the word slavery to refer to 'any' level of taxation. You decide to open your reply to me by saying, "So if someone owns 99% of your life and possessions..." - that is positing a false situation that has nothing to do with my argument.

(Edited by Steve Wolfer on 1/19, 8:41pm)


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Post 8

Thursday, January 20, 2011 - 9:28amSanction this postReply
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Freedom without government is anarchy, pure rule by the most force. It is the difference between driving in America, and driving in Bangladesh. The missing elements are, respect for individual rights beyond mere physics/force(bangladesh) and respect for individual rights based on a principle(America.)

There is only one traffic law in bangladesh: biggest vehicle in any conflict goes where it wants, without any regard to any smaller vehicles. Pure physics.

The terminus of that missing principle isn't 'the most powerful individual rules.' The terminus of that missing principle is 'the most powerful mob rules.' (In a de facto theocracy like Bangladesh, that is their local gang of religious thugs.)

The missing principle is easily defined. Freedom isn't the freedom to sprint across the public sphere without regard to the existence of others(no matter how blinded we are by the glaring truth of our personal religious revelations, like a Paul Krugman.)

Freedom is the freedom to navigate the public sphere, mindful of the presence and freedom of others. (Not 'most' others, but all others.)

We benefit from the resulting freedom. The necessary government -- a loaded phrase -- must be paid for. To realize benefit without paying for it is stealing from those who do.

For that to work in the context of freedom, the loaded phrase -- necessary government -- must itself adhere to some principle -- some ethical principle-- in order for it to create an ethical obligation to pay for it.

If, instead, necessary government is defined simply as the result of brute force -- the brute force of simple numbers, a majority, bound by no ethics other than force -- then it has a murky ethical foundation.

What actions justify state intervention, in the context of individual freedom?

Murder?
Rape?
Theft?
Extortion?
Fraud?
Forced association?

Intervention/adjudication of the above costs money, and so,

Failure to pay for necessary government(same as theft) might/should be added to the list.

If there is a consistent principle at the root of that list, then it is forced/involuntary association (what I personally have shorthanded as, a violation of 'one skin, one driver.')

Where the definition of 'necessary government' goes astray is when its definition is permitted, in the context of freedom, to lurch into religious or similar grounds anathema to freedom, as if, through the mechanism of the state, the role of 'necessary government' was to implement a kind of theocracy, as opposed to simply establish the context of freedom -- freedom from the forced association of each other on anything other than well defined and limited terms, such as, the need to pay for the necessary common government necessary to secure our freedom, which is, ultimately, freedom from each other, except via free association, which freely occurs.

We see the results of freedom constrained by that principle every day in America. (We also see the freedom-eating consequence of ignoring that principle, the source of the political anger seething in America these days.)

Large trucks and small cars share the highways everyday, mindful of each others existence under a set of laws designed not to tell each other where to drive, or what our goals/destination are, but how to best navigate to those destinations mindful of each others presence, so that we can each get to where we are going in that public sphere.

Without that principle, driving would in fact be like driving in Bangladesh, where there is only one rule: physics. A place where, daily, in the world's most crowded urban areas, the sight of individuals in rickshaws flying end-over-end through space is a daily occurrence, met not with ambulances and helicopters rushing them off to trauma centers, but an angry crowd descending on the wreckage, berating the victims for causing a traffic disturbance(by not getting out of the way of the larger vehicles), and dragging both bodies and wreckage to the side of the road from where to fend for themselves.

That is Mad Max World. That is, freedom without effective government based on any ethical principle.

When America's imperfect union allows the definition of 'necessary government' to lurch into areas that can't be rationalized based on any ethical argument other than brute force (majority rule) or religious argument, then I can find no ethical basis to condemn those who resist such clumsy tribal forks using every means at their capable disposal, including, non-disclosed Cayman Corps and the buying of corruptible government officials, and generally, exactly the kind of broken 'economies-for-some' that our modern tribal lurch away from freedom has resulted in.

That look in Krugman's face is like a hint that he gets it, and his recent bitter laments further indication that he knows he and his royally screwed the pooch. He is itching to reach for the state's guns, and take the tribal lurch to the next level, because his polite political incantations have failed to bring about the theocracy he seeks.











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Thursday, January 20, 2011 - 4:06pmSanction this postReply
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That would be what Nozick dubbed "on par with forced labor." If someone is legally authorized or empowered to make another person work, while it may not amount to full blown slavery, it comes close to it since one is then not doing what one chooses but what another chooses and must stand ready to do it whenever ordered to.

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