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Saturday, February 5, 2011 - 10:32amSanction this postReply
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It can be amazing what some researchers are willing to say on the record.

This reminds me of Game Theory researchers lamenting that Prisoner's Dilemma data lead one to the conclusion that man is not "rational", because everybody knows (according to the philosophically-deficient researchers), that in order to be considered "rational" in such games, then subjects must choose to throw other participants under the bus in a short-sighted, narrow-minded fit of self-preservation.

Instead of realizing that both having a conscience and having a working relationship with other humans is desirable, these researchers think of the subjects as sacrificing (in Rand's sense of the term) their freedom. Rational behavior, to these ideological infants, is akin to the infantile narcissism of a two-year old grabbing all the toys in the playroom at the nursery (to the wailing dismay of the other toddlers). Rational behavior, to such so-called scientists, can be summarized in the two-word phrase:

"Mine, now!"

Ed

(Edited by Ed Thompson on 2/05, 10:33am)


Post 1

Saturday, February 5, 2011 - 10:54amSanction this postReply
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Students were seated at a table to work on two seemingly unrelated language puzzles. For some stu­dents, the first puzzle included words related to achievement (such as win or achieve), and for others it did not. Students who were exposed to achievement words were found to outperform the others on the second puzzle.


This is potentially philosophic.

Imagine testing Objectivists against altruists on this same word puzzle, using the (scrambled?) word: "selfishness". Or using the word: "sacrifice." Let's say, for discussion, that the Objectivists completed the "selfishness" word before the altruists could figure out what it was. Researchers, looking at that result, may comment that the Objectivist's mind made the decision to look for life-affirming words; when given no background or instruction on the matter -- i.e., as a default decision.

Rand would say: "Check your premises." because, as it turns out, they really do affect the light in which you see things out in the world. But does that mean free will doesn't exist? No. The very injunction to check them rests on the possibility that you can consciously investigate -- and validate or consciously reject -- said premises.

I performed this task -- which can only be achieved with a free and self-relective will -- when I converted myself from Christian socialism to Objectivism nearly a decade ago. I am a self-altered soul.

Ed

(Edited by Ed Thompson on 2/05, 9:38pm)


Post 2

Saturday, February 5, 2011 - 12:52pmSanction this postReply
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Face it - the world is 'ruled' by the notion of sacrifice, somewhere, despite so much evidence against it as a valid social principle...it is, you might say, the 'given' in social views...

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Post 3

Sunday, February 6, 2011 - 6:29amSanction this postReply
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"Blow up" fallacy; I like that.

It applies, I think, to conflating what Man can do with what men do.

Man has the ability to choose what he values. IMO, the more I think of that phrase, the more I see it mapping to an ability to self-weight the higher order value seeking neural-nets that govern the top most functioning of our brains. That is the machinery of how we choose what to value. Value is a weighting of goal seeking neural nets, and we have the ability to self choose goals and weightings.

Men also have the ability to blow in the wind, even as Man has more ability than that. To choose poorly. To respond mostly to their low level reptilian brain functioning, and its wired in 'Can it eat me? Can I eat it?' as the alpha and omega of their personal value seeking calculus. (We call these folks criminals, it might be more apt to call them reptilian humans.)

Not all men are reptilian humans. Man can be more than that even as men are sometimes not.

What men can sometimes do should never be allowed to be the basis for a politics aimed at Man.







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Post 4

Thursday, February 10, 2011 - 4:53amSanction this postReply
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Maybe sacrifice--altruism--is popular (though not so much in practice as in discourse) because people want other people to sacrifice for them! Not exactly a benevolent reason!

Post 5

Thursday, February 10, 2011 - 6:40amSanction this postReply
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Precisely - after all, who wants to say they wish to be a slave [which is what sacrificing for the OTHER person amounts to]...

Post 6

Thursday, February 10, 2011 - 8:12amSanction this postReply
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Maybe sacrifice--altruism--is popular (though not so much in practice as in discourse) because people want other people to sacrifice for them! Not exactly a benevolent reason!
I sometimes do wonder if the majority of the people pushing altruism aren't cut-throat Nietzschean predators paving the way for a more unbridled predation on their fellow man. I know the leading philosophers (e.g., Peter Singer) are guilty as hell, but it may be true that most everyone preaching altruism is doing so out of evil, predatory desires.

Ed


Post 7

Thursday, February 10, 2011 - 9:21amSanction this postReply
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isn't that what 'they' are always saying - is a 'dog-eat-dog world' ? ;-)
(Edited by robert malcom on 2/10, 9:21am)


Post 8

Thursday, February 10, 2011 - 9:51amSanction this postReply
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Someone once told me that you see the world as you see yourself.

:-)


Post 9

Thursday, February 10, 2011 - 11:17amSanction this postReply
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is THAT why the elitists have such problems...;-)

Post 10

Friday, February 11, 2011 - 5:08amSanction this postReply
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Used to be dubbed "projecting." It finds its way into much sophisticated discourse, such as regarding all people homo economicus. Maybe it's just that a lot of economists are in fact obsessed with economic advance above all else in their lives? Or would that be an ad hominem point?

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Post 11

Friday, February 11, 2011 - 1:40pmSanction this postReply
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Psychological projection is reacting as if, or imagining that, others have some trait that they don't and which actually comes from one's self.

It could be an "innocent" projection where ignorance of alternative ways of being lead someone to project onto others a trait that the person assumes everyone has. This sometimes occurs when people don't grasp large cultural differences - someone just assumes people from a different world will see things the same way. You can also see it where people are innocent of the degree of deception or willingness to do harm that some people have. There are many good people who don't grasp the degee of meanness that can exist and project their more honest and benevolent traits onto others (to the endless delight of dishonest politicians). But these aren't really psychological projection, they are examples of mistaken assumptions and insufficient knowledge.

Those are not examples of psychological projection since there is no defense mechanism at work. There is no underlying motivation to reduce anxiety. First there has to be an internal conflict - like two concepts 1.) It is not nice to be angry and if I get angry people won't like me, and 2) I am feeling extremely angry. The conflict generates anxiety - "I feel angry, but I must not feel angry." That motivates the second step - the repression of one side of the conflict (instead of resolution). In this case, say the person represses the anger, buries it from sight, and even from himself inorder to continue to be liked and to be a good person. (Which can never be totally hidden, we know when we are repressing). That brings up the possibility that someone else might begin to trigger feelings of anger, they would be repressed but not without generating a background discomfort - anxiety, and the person might project the repressed anger. The result is that the sense of discomfort and anxiety of their internal conflict is reduced, but at the expense of generating an illusion - a barrier to seeing what really exists.

There are times when some of us have experienced being accused of being angry when we don't have that impression of where we are. That can be valuable information - "Am I repressing some anger and they are seeing it? Or are they projecting anger they repressed onto me?"

People who feel insecure about their worth can project a sense of smallness or lack of worth onto others (often as a part of buffing up a psuedo-self-esteem, feeling superior to those others). It is a feeling that they aren't worthy that they are hiding from themselves that they are projecting. Notice that arguments that are ad hominum might be a case of side-stepping logic regarding some discussion of the moment inorder to support a projection mechanism that has been activated to keep the person safely buffered from any connection to their own feelings of inferiority. I think that some of the best communicators in fields where high levels of conflict are the norm, are successful to a high degree because they 'project' (non-defense type of projection) benevolence and acceptance and that means their opponents are less likely to experience a threat that makes them get defensive. Think of Reagan and Milton Friedman.

Here is a fairly good description from Wikipedia: "In one example of the process, a person might have thoughts of infidelity with respect to a spouse or other partner. Instead of dealing with these undesirable thoughts consciously, the subject unconsciously projects these feelings onto the other person, and begins to think that the other has thoughts of infidelity and that the other may be having an affair. In this way, the subject may obtain 'acquittal by his conscience - if he projects his own impulses to faithlessness on to the partner to whom he owes faith'. In this sense, projection is related to denial, arguably the only defense mechanism that is more primitive than projection. Projection, like all defense mechanisms, provides a function whereby a person can protect the conscious mind from a feeling that is otherwise repulsive." [Note that there must be a conflict first - 'At times I want to be unfaithful, but it is immoral and wrong to be unfaithful' and that the conflict involves internalized values that are important enough to generate significant anxiety and that the person must choose to deal with this and get conscious resolution, or to mentally blank out - from the consious mind - one side or the other. In this example the person blanks out the feelings of lust for someone other than their partner... and what is repressed becomes material for projecting.]

Back to Wikipedia: "Projection can also be established as a means of obtaining or justifying certain actions that would normally be found atrocious or heinous. This often means projecting false accusations, information, etc., onto an individual for the sole purpose of maintaining a self-created illusion. One of the many problems with the process whereby 'something dangerous that is felt inside can be moved outside - a process of "projection"' - is that as a result 'the projector may become somewhat depleted and rendered limp in character, as he loses part of his personality'." There is a psychologist in Australia who works with children and he has helped children who are soiling themselves and feel to ashamed to be able to do good therapy, by encouraging a useful, temporay projection. Michael White might ask the child, "When does the Poo Monster come after you, more at night or more during the day?" They encourage the child to see it as on the outside and thus less contaminating. But the same kind of mechanism allowed Nazi concentration camp guards to be monsters by projecting onto the Jews a non-human nature.

Wikipedia: "Compartmentalization, splitting and projection are ways that the ego continues to pretend that it is completely in control at all times..." It is always about defending against anxiety, and it always involves different ways of creating illusions, or a form of avoidance (of not seeing, not understanding, or not feeling). Wikipedia could have added rationalization, denial and repression. They can all blend together as techniques for attempting to deal with internal conflicts that generate anxiety. In software terms one would say that a subroutine was created early on, in an immature application, and that subroutine keeps attempting to filter out bad things, but the final result is that problems are deferred instead of brought forward to be dealt with and it will always be a bad way to deal with the bad data.


Post 12

Friday, February 11, 2011 - 5:51pmSanction this postReply
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I would say that for most people, many of their actions are based on subconscious motivations that they haven't thought through. We can argue about what percentages, and to what extent it is possible to be rigorous in our thinking, but people have parts of their brains that generate emotions, and it is counterintuitive and hard (though certainly not impossible) to have the rational parts of one's brain override the emotional urges where appropriate (and sometimes where it is NOT appropriate -- our emotional reactions are right a good percentage of the time).

In fact, quite a few modern liberals hold political POVs based on emotional reactions that do not hold up to rigorous logical scrutiny. When you hear "but, but, it's for the children", there's a strong possibility that you're either hearing an emotional reaction, or a cynical but logically thought through attempt to exploit others with an appeal to emotion rather than reason.

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Post 13

Friday, February 11, 2011 - 6:33pmSanction this postReply
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It is the internal conflict that is the key. When reason and emotion conflict, there is a moment where we can choose to focus our conscious mind on the conflict and we are open to make a choice. The choice is not just between the reasoned position and the emotional urge, but between focusing as such or avoiding a sharper focus. If the choice is to be conscious, it is less likely the person will have the kind of problems I mentioned in my post above . A person can let themselves be moved by emotions more often than they should - to follow a whim, and that is bad, but not as bad as when they go to the extreme of cutting off from reality via repression or denial.

What I'm trying to say is that the first choice isn't between that emotion and a reasoned approach. It is between choosing to focus more tightly as opposed to avoiding that focus. All conflicts generate that the moment where volition can be exercised... again, and again. That's our nature.

Emotional responses can never be said to be "right" in the sense that they are being treated as tools of cognition. An emotion has no truth about the future, and no truth about the present other than it is what one feels. They can't tell us what is right - they can only be right in the sense that they were born of rational values in the past and that the conscious mind exercises the oversight and openness to ensuring that acts are not on emotion alone. "Trusting your gut" should be understood as meaning, "Pay attention to what you feel - it might speak to a conflict that should be surfaced and examined."

Emotions are the purpose, the end. What we want is to make of our life a powerful and positive experience. Reason is the means to making the choices that will lead to those experiences.

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