About
Content
Store
Forum

Rebirth of Reason
War
People
Archives
Objectivism

Post to this threadMark all messages in this thread as readMark all messages in this thread as unread


Post 0

Tuesday, February 18, 2014 - 4:09pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit

Joe,

We would benefit if our society was just, meaning that people could expect to get what they deserve.

YES!!!! In so many ways.  Not just in the criminal arena.  Much of what is rot in our culture comes of people behaving in ways that avoid getting what they deserve... even in small things, like making an argument that they know if flawed, but that they also know if obtuse enough to they can 'get away' with it. Or a student that turns in a substandard paper, but gets away with it by pleading some hardship or ignorance. Or a worker that pretends to not understand fully what their work responsibilities are. Or an employer who renigs on a promise to provide a raise after 6 months by claiming 'things have changed in the economy' when that's not the reason.

 

I'm reminded of a scene in a Woody Allen movie where he is standing in line to see a movie and the person next to him is going on and on like a movie critic but doesn't know what he's talking about.  The Woody Allen character yearns to have Marshall McLuane magically appear and correct the pompus fellow - it is a yearning for a small bit of justice (the value).  In the movie it happens - but in real life it is a tiny bit of justice value that we are denied because our society doesn't discourage people from making statements that they can't support, aren't really knowlegeable about, and believe they'll get away with.

 

How many people use the anonymity of the Internet to drop to a lower level of integity just because they can get away with it?

 

How many people go after entitlements because they can?

 

In the arena of initiated violence, the Islamic terrorists and their supporters are perfect example of there being an environment in which they can act without getting what they deserve - and that makes terrorism possible.

 

We, as a society, won't get what our structures and beliefs and practices aren't designed to provide. We will only get what they are designed to provide, and in too many instances that is an absence of the value of justice. (Just in case someone draws the wrong impression from what I'm saying, none of this means I'd support a society where the government provided justice in areas where the initiation of force wasn't involved,)

 

I like your distinction between the virtue of justice and the value of justice. Justice remains a virtue, but by focusing on the value we are focused more on the gains and losses and that is a more purposeful orientation. It is also more instructive - and that is good in a world that often doesn't want to look at consequences.

 

I also like how you've dicotomized the value of justice into the individual pursuit of the value of justice in the details of one's life, versus the philosophical/sociological/legal examination of the value of justice so as to create better systems - because both are important.



Post 1

Tuesday, February 18, 2014 - 8:01pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit

Thank you Joe that was very eloquent!



Post 2

Monday, February 24, 2014 - 6:59amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit

When it comes to matters of personal betrayal, maybe society and distinctive groups of colleagues should create various, non-violent, social-morality Leagues of Justice to listen to complaints, judge disputes, make reprimands, and issue calls for public retribution.



Post 3

Monday, February 24, 2014 - 9:07amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit

Kyrel!!! Hey buddddy!!

Excellent suggestions.



Post to this thread


User ID Password or create a free account.