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Post 0

Saturday, November 1, 2008 - 11:39amSanction this postReply
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For the purposes of reader-experience, please write SPOILER ALERT before publicizing any answers.

Ed


Post 1

Saturday, November 1, 2008 - 12:04pmSanction this postReply
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See the proper answers here.

Post 2

Saturday, November 1, 2008 - 1:35pmSanction this postReply
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Proper, schmoper -- those aren't real answers.

One RoR participant already RoR-mailed answers to me -- and this person got an "A"!

Ed


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Post 3

Saturday, November 1, 2008 - 1:54pmSanction this postReply
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Careful Ed, RoR already has one school marm...

Post 4

Saturday, November 1, 2008 - 3:49pmSanction this postReply
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In response to the banter thread:

The only question I really found poorly worded was the happiness one. And Ed knows that I object to treating individuals as adequately described by subsumption under a concept. Indeed, some of the measurements omitted are highly relevant for individual personal joy. Simply add the word "each" before man in that question and there is no objection. Ambiguous is exactly the word that came to mind on the reason question.

Reason is not something that is "absolute" - only concrete exisistence is. Men "hold reason as their absolute" meaning as a standard. But ontologically, reason is a relationship.

Post 5

Saturday, November 1, 2008 - 6:19pmSanction this postReply
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Leonard Peikoff wrote a Study Guide to Objectivism in a Q and A format.  Does anyone have it?
(I just put all of my Ayn Rand books on one shelf when we moved in here in September and that one did not show up.  It might be in some other box, or perhaps lost in space and time.)

The Purpose of Man's Existence

Lesson 1 from the Baltimore Cathechism

1. Who made us?

God made us.
In the beginning, God created heaven and earth. (Genesis 1:1)

2. Who is God?

God is the Supreme Being, infinitely perfect, who made all things and keeps them in existence.
In him we live and move and have our being. (Acts 17:28)

3. Why did God make us?

God made us to show forth His goodness and to share with us His everlasting happiness in heaven.
Eye has not seen nor ear heard, nor has it entered into the heart of man, what things God has prepared for those who love him. (I Corinthians 2:9)

48. What is man?

Man is a creature composed of body and soul, and made to the image and likeness of God.
And God created man to his own image. (Genesis 2:7)

49. Is this likeness to God in the body or in the soul?

This likeness to God is chiefly in the soul.

50. How is the soul like God?

The soul is like God because it is a spirit having understanding and free will, and is destined to live forever.
And the dust return into its earth, from whence it was, and the spirit return to God, who gave it. (Ecclesiastes 12:7)


(Edited by Michael E. Marotta on 11/01, 6:23pm)


Post 6

Saturday, November 1, 2008 - 7:30pmSanction this postReply
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SPOILER ALERT

Ted,

Reason is not something that is "absolute" - only concrete exisistence is. Men "hold reason as their absolute" meaning as a standard. But ontologically, reason is a relationship.
But relationships are what it is that make absolutes possible.

For example, life and death are absolute relations (of beings to existence). Because man exists, reason is an absolute. If man didn't exist in relation to the world, then we couldn't say that reason -- the necessary way that man achieves knowledge -- would be an absolute. Also, if man wasn't who he is -- if, for instance, he was an amoeba that responded solely to the environment right outside of his membrane -- then reason wouldn't be an absolute.

Ed


Post 7

Saturday, November 1, 2008 - 7:44pmSanction this postReply
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Ed, there is certainly a sense in which one can describe reason as absolute. But this is not the primary sense of the word, nor a fully explicit formulation. The absolute is the real in itself - existence. Reason is the volitional use of the conscious faculty to identify reality (the absolute) non-contradictorily. To be rational is to volitionally conform to reality. Again, one holds absolutely to reason as one's standard. This is what Rand means by holding reason as an absolute. It is extreme poetic shorthand then to say reason is absolute. Fully expressed, The proper phrase is:

"I hold reason as an absolute (standard)."

Truly treating Reason capitalized as an absolute is Platonism and rationalism. Here, reason comes to mean something not relative to reality, but existent in itself. That is primacy of consciousness.

Post 8

Saturday, November 1, 2008 - 8:42pmSanction this postReply
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Ted,

I understand the potential Platonism-Scholasticism of calling reason an absolute. But thanks for the alert even if it wasn't altogether instructive (but rather an explicit statement of the obvious).

Get this. Rand said that the supremacy of reason is the guts and glory of her philosophy. Now, wouldn't you have to call that a Primacy of Reason (in order to avoid contradicting what you've already said here)?

Try that "extreme poetic shorthand" on for size.

:-)

Ed



Post 9

Saturday, November 1, 2008 - 8:59pmSanction this postReply
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No. Not "Supremacy of Reason" but reason as man's only means of cognition. His only contact with reality, which is absolute.

Post 10

Sunday, November 2, 2008 - 6:18amSanction this postReply
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Reason is not absolute.  Reason is provisional because it must be tested by experience.  Logic is absolute because it is invariant and independent of experience. 

==> Is reason logic?

Logic is non-contradictory thinking, by Rand's definition.

Logically, "necessary and sufficient" is "equivalent to." 

I was taking a class in boolean algebra during Hurricane Katrina.  President Bush insisted that "our response was necessary and sufficient."  I brought that up in class because his statement meant literally and logically, that in the absence of the hurricane, the federal response would have been just as bad as a hurricane.  Imagine it: thousands of people showing up, trailers all over the place, National Guard troops; it would have been a disaster! 

But is that reasonable?  Is that a reasonable criticism of the President's statement? 

Reason is the faculty that integrates in the information provided by the senses.  If reason were (merely) logic  inclusive-or if logic were (always) reasonable, then desktop computers would have consciousness.  

There is more to reason than logic.  Logic is a necessary condition of reason, but not logic alone is not sufficient.  Take, for example, our good friends Penn & Teller, who make a living entertaining us with their perceptual ambiguities.  Logically, things can pop into existence without cause: "let there be x, such that..."  Reason tells us to look for the man behind the curtain.

Consider "stagflation."  By the logic of Keynesian economics, if the government injects money into the economy, it is a stimulus.  Reason -- which is grounded in experience -- tells us that there is more to this and warns us that the consequences will be a decrease in production. 

Is it reasonable that people should fly?

You could prove to Aristotle that it is logically possible to fly -- start with Empedocles's experiments and in about a week, you could show Aristotle that it could be done.  Constructing a flying machine in 300BC -- or even 1800 AD -- was unreasonable, i.e., empirically impossible, for lack of a host of technolgies that were preconditions to the construction of flying machines. 

By logic -- Bernoulli's laws, etc. -- flying was always possible.
But it was unreasonable -- provisionally, not absolutely, impossible -- before 1900.
 


Post 11

Sunday, November 2, 2008 - 7:09amSanction this postReply
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No.

:-)

Ed


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Post 12

Sunday, November 2, 2008 - 7:34amSanction this postReply
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According to private feedback, RoR participants have had different views on question numbers:

6 (what reason is),
8 (what perception is),
14 (what consciousness is), and
22 (what rights are).

The way I see it, if we straighten those four things out -- we'll be "golden."

:-)

Just kidding. But it goes to show that seemingly simple things really aren't -- and that there's actually work to do in philosophy (i.e., it's not just everyone using their common sense, or some folksy simplicity like that).

Ed


Post 13

Friday, November 14, 2008 - 8:15amSanction this postReply
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Ed, just wanted to compliment you on this quiz, in essence it's a great idea and I think something like this could be a great mechanism to get people to discuss philosophy and to realize it actually plays a role in their life. I would recommend printing this up and bringing over to your closest friend or family member's house who might have some bad philosophical ideas. Even starting on one or two questions and getting a discussion going with them could make a monumental difference. Don't barage them with a lecture though.

Ok, that's everyone's homework assignment for the weekend!



Post 14

Friday, November 14, 2008 - 2:18pmSanction this postReply
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Ed,

Interesting that - the different views within this forum on those four questions.

Also, I tend to see most issues as complex, or at least as more complex than commonly thought. The presence of these different views probably support this perspective, although I'll add that differing but logical conclusions can be arrived at when the starting premises are not the same

jt

Post 15

Friday, November 14, 2008 - 4:21pmSanction this postReply
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Michael,

Thanks for the positive feedback. I'll be trying out your suggestion ...

Ed


Post 16

Friday, November 14, 2008 - 4:26pmSanction this postReply
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JT,

I think I'm with you but I might not be. It would be great for you to give an example of arriving at the same conclusion from different premises. One off the top of my head is this:

2 + 2 = 4

and

2 x 2 = 4

Now, 4 is the right conclusion, but for 2 different reasons. In the case of addition premises, when you add 2 to 2 -- you get 2 more than 2, which is 4. In the case of multiplication premises, you get twice the value of 2, which is 4. However, in this example, these premises may only seem to be different -- without actually being differing premises (because you can reword them into each other without apparent contradiction).

Get my drift?

Ed

(Edited by Ed Thompson on 11/14, 4:27pm)


Post 17

Friday, November 28, 2008 - 11:47amSanction this postReply
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In response to constructive criticism, I've edited some things.

Criticisms I subjected to reflection but that I did not adopt are:

--a fluid concept of man (something which "evolves")

--a fluid concept of law (something arrived at by "barter")

--a fluid concept of rights (something that has to be perceived or conceived of in order to first exist -- and, therefore, can be perceived or conceived of in multitudinous ways)

--a fluid concept of perception (something different for everyone)

--a fluid concept of reason (something relative for everyone; rather than absolute for everyone)

--and a fluid concept of consciousness (something unique to each thing possessing it)

On first glance, it seems I have something against fluid concepts. Regardless, here's the updated version:

========================
Thompson Worldview Sorter, revised 2008 version (a quiz about your own sense of life, of values, and of reality)


Choose the best answer ...

1. It's best to envision man as
a) compassionate
b) flawed
c) frail
d) a hero
e) a victim

2. The universe is
a) dangerous
b) an enemy
c) a helpful friend
d) knowable
e) a mystery

3. The "good" is something that
a) exists independently of man
b) is different for everyone
c) minimizes pain and suffering
d) comes from God
e) exists in relation to man

4. The moral purpose of your life should be
a) service to a greater good
b) to minimize pain and suffering
c) to please God
d) your happiness
e) your immediate, short-term interests

5. The noblest activity would be
a) opportunism
b) practicing humility
c) prayer
d) productive achievement
e) sacrifice

6. Reason is
a) our best way to understand reality
b) the antithesis of emotion
c) helpful only part of the times
d) our only way to understand reality
e) used by all life forms

7. Man knows things by
a) feeling
b) intuition
c) reason
d) remembering (innate ideas)
e) revelation

8. Perception is
a) "reality" (naive realism)
b) "our" reality (subjectivism)
c) a direct pickup of environmental variance
d) distorting (because it's "processed" information)
e) indirect (a perfect mental view of captured and imperfect sense data)

9. The ideal social system is
a) anarcho-libertarianism (rule by the market)
b) benevolent despotism (rule by the wise and compassionate)
c) laissez-faire capitalism (constitutional republic)
d) a mixed economy (rule by bureaucracy)
e) full democracy (rule of the mob)

10. Philosophy meets our need of
a) competition (as in debates)
b) contemplation
c) entertainment/distraction
d) a framework for action
e) self-expression

11. Philosophic axioms are
a) an antidote to the arbitrary
b) intrinsic knowledge
c) true but insufficiently useful
d) true but irrelevant
e) true but overrated

12. Existence is
a) meaningful apart from identity
b) expressed only through identity
c) relative
d) intrinsic
e) subjective (because only particulars exist)

13. Causality is
a) overrated
b) a useful fiction
c) an unknowable intrinsic
d) identity in action
e) relative

14. Consciousness is
a) subjective (unique creation of existence)
b) subjective (unique interpretation of existence)
c) more powerful when shared by a group
d) more powerful when coming from God
e) objective (identification of reality)

15. The mind is
a) a (physical) part of the body
b) an entity unto itself
c) an aspect of man
d) an aspect of God in man
e) a useful fiction

16. Concepts are
a) intrinsic knowledge
b) subjective (because of always being formed by individuals, each with their own unique, perceptual histories with the world)
c) what allow for human objectivity
d) relative
e) objects inside our minds, rather than a method of awareness used by our minds

17. Definitions are
a) objective, factual, and necessary
b) relative
c) limiting
d) subjective
e) intrinsic (unrelated to our level of knowledge)

18. Rationality is
a) the volitional use of logic
b) computation (including the non-volitional computation of a computer)
c) present whenever any living thing's behavior is modified by environmental cues
d) a pipe dream (because we're emotional)
e) the short-sighted, narrow-minded behavior predicted by philosophically-bankrupt economists and game theorists

19. Justice is best served by
a) deterrence (it reforms society by setting harsh examples out of the first criminals caught)
b) mercy (because mercy for predators is not injustice to victims)
c) reform (by making the punishment fit the man)
d) restitution (because it makes the victim feel better)
e) retribution (where a wrong is righted because the punishment fits the crime)

20. Pride is
a) building the kind of character, through habitual action, that makes your life worth sustaining and underlies all other achievement (a recognition of your psychological continuity)
b) morally optional
c) something that goes before a fall
d) haughty and arrogant
e) sinful

21. Altruism is
a) kindness, goodwill, and respect for the rights of others
b) about helping others
c) about sacrificing yourself
d) what God wants from us
e) needed for authentic benevolence or good will among men

22. Individual rights are
a) useful fictions
b) relative (dictators don't violate anyone's rights because they're acting in a social system that doesn't conceptually acknowledge them in the first place; and conceptual acknowledgement is required for individual rights to exist)
c) metaphysical requirements for human success and happiness
d) not required (we can be successful and happy without them)
e) rights to the product of the efforts of others (rights to enslave)

23. Morality is
a) required for success in the world
b) God-given
c) whatever you want it to be
d) a useful fiction
e) only important when dealing with others

24. The use of force or fraud when dealing with others is
a) often necessary
b) evil, but practical
c) destructive to the condition of freedom needed by man to think and succeed
d) okay when it's done by the government
e) inevitable because of intrinsic human defects or conflicts of interest

25. Being a hero requires
a) moving mountains
b) others' viewing you as a hero (in their eyes)
c) out-competing others
d) progressively living truer to your own highest values
e) moral perfection
========================
(Edited by Ed Thompson on 11/28, 3:43pm)


Post 18

Tuesday, December 2, 2008 - 5:38amSanction this postReply
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I gave an existentialist my quiz on how you should think about things.

He got about 50% of the correct answers. He complained to me about how I added the parentheses for some of the answers, such as when I would say that individual rights are

e) rights to the product of the efforts of others (rights to enslave)

He said that -- by altering the general meaning of things with my added parentheses -- that I was making some questions impossible to answer, because none of the five possible answers were good unless you took away the part in the parentheses.

I think he has a problem with non-fluid concepts. I think all existentialists do. It's like they fear identity.

Ed

p.s. I had had about a dozen discussions with this guy before I gave him my quiz about how he should think about things (if he wants to be happy). That's how I figured out his "philosopho-type" (post-modern existentialist). He doesn't yet know that my quiz has only one perfect set of answers. If I had made him aware of that fact beforehand, I might never have gotten him to take the quiz in the first place.

(Edited by Ed Thompson on 12/02, 5:44am)


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