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Post 20

Sunday, October 7, 2012 - 8:59pmSanction this postReply
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paul is a paleo-conservative and not a libertarian. He is a man who has fooled a large number of otherwise intelligent people into thinking that he believes in liberty, when in fact his beliefs are a patchwork of poorly understood anti-government positions and opportunistic populism. He does serious damage to the cause of liberty

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Post 21

Sunday, October 7, 2012 - 11:05pmSanction this postReply
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Michael,

I think your position is totally wrong. If you have some evidence you should present it. You should be specific about what his 'real' beliefs are. You should say what, specifically, he has done to damage liberty. You said that his beliefs are poorly understood - I've read some of his books and have to say that is just not true.

Here is a quick summary of why it makes no sense to see Ron Paul as a Paleo-conservative:
  • Paleo-conservatives are often anti-corporation, Paul isn't.
  • Paleo-conservatives are usually anti-gay, and want a national definition of marriage act, Paul doesn't believe government has the right to tell people what marriage is or isn't - he treats it as a first amendment issue and a contract.
  • Paleo-conservatives base their political beliefs on tradition, Paul explicitly defines his as based upon liberty as described by non-initiation of violence.
  • Paleo-conservatives often advocate protectionism, Paul says the government has no right to stop free trade between private individuals.
  • Paleo-conservatives usually favor conscription, Paul considers it totalitarian.
  • Paleo-conservatives often favor some degree of spying on citizens to root out terrorists, Paul sees any invasion of privacy not proceeded by probable cause verified by a judge as a violation of the constitution.

From Wikipedia: "Paleocons tend to dislike abstract principles presented without connection to concrete roots, like religion, heritage or traditional institutions." That's totally opposite of Paul who derives his positions from the basic Libertarian principles. And, "Paul is a proponent of Austrian School economics; he has authored six books on the subject, and displays pictures of Austrian School economists Friedrich Hayek, Murray Rothbard, and Ludwig von Mises (as well as of Grover Cleveland) on his office wall. He regularly votes against almost all proposals for new government spending, initiatives, or taxes; he cast two thirds of all the lone negative votes in the House during a 1995–1997 period."

Read the list of books that Paul recommends people read. It is in the very back of Revolution (with an effort you can find it at the bottom of the Table of Contents preview where Amazon.com lets you look inside a book) - It includes a recommendation that every book of Ayn Rand's be read. It is not a conservative's reading list.

The idea that Paul would pretend to be something other than he is doesn't make sense and doesn't match up with his personality.


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Post 22

Monday, October 8, 2012 - 7:09pmSanction this postReply
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I checked the free section of the book on Steve's suggestion (I don't yet own the book) and Steve is right about Ron Paul recommending that people read Ayn Rand and Austrian economists and libertarian trailblazers. Here are samples from his book recommendations:

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Friedrich A. Hayek: The Road to Serfdom.

Henry Hazlitt: Economics in One Lesson.

Eric Hoffer: The True Believer.

Ludwig von Mises: Human Action.

Isabel Paterson: The God of the Machine.

Ayn Rand: Atlas Shrugged.

Llewellyn H. Rockwell, Jr.: Speaking of Liberty.

Murray Rothbard: What Has Government Done to Our Money?
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That mix of books is heavily tilted toward libertarianism -- decisively farther toward libertarianism than most (all?) other political professionals would recommend. You could go all year before you find even one other politician who recommends even half of these books.

Ed


Post 23

Wednesday, October 10, 2012 - 8:27amSanction this postReply
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TSI:  My only problem with that, Steve, is that Paul has already implied he wouldn't protect individual rights under some circumstances in states where they are clearly being violated.   ...  He outright said the Federal government "can't stop the states from doing bad things... 
SW:"Paul does NOT explain things as well as he should. He should say something like this: "What you are talking about will have to be protected at the state level because ...
See the discussion on religion.  Consider also the Second Amendment.  Gun control is local or state.  Over the years, the Supreme Court has extended federal powers over the states by "incorporating to the states" the rights in the Bill of Rights.  But, as noted, some states did have their own tax-supported churches.  The Bill of Rights only limited the federal government. 


We never had a federal law against profanity.  Those were local laws, limiting speech. Federal court decisions extended federal powers over the state - again "incorporating to the states" the rights under the Constitution.

We have been around on this many times about the so-called "geographic monopoly of law."  If such a thing should exist, then the entire USA should have one set of laws, not 50. 

As for what Ron Paul should have said, we just had this with Ed Hudgins on Romney.  "He should have said what I wanted him to say, so I will vote for the person I wish he was."  That is denial of reality.

ET: Friedrich A. Hayek: The Road to Serfdom. ...  Murray Rothbard: What Has Government Done to Our Money?  You could go all year before you find even one other politician who recommends even half of these books.
How about Paul Ryan?  And Rothbard was a hack.  We like to read what he said because we want to believe it but I assure you that this particular book is historical hokum cooked up to look like research.  Numismatic evidence disputes and disproves Rothbard's claims.

(Edited by Michael E. Marotta on 10/10, 8:30am)


Post 24

Wednesday, October 10, 2012 - 6:15pmSanction this postReply
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Michael,

You are wrong. The Bill of Rights did not just limit the federal government.
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We have been around on this many times about the so-called "geographic monopoly of law." If such a thing should exist, then the entire USA should have one set of laws, not 50.
You don't understand the concept of jurisdiction. There can be thousands of sets of laws, but only one will fit the context. Is it family court? Is it a beef over a contract? Was it an incident that took place in Georgia? Jurisdiction is complex and it is much more than geography.
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When I talked about what Ron Paul should have said, that was a judgment of a single statement. And I mentioned that he doesn't always make himself clear. But, I don't need to judge Ron Paul based on a single statement - in this context that wouldn't be very rational. People that do that are often trying to create straw men and twist the truth. I've heard Paul speak on lots of occasions, and I've read articles and books he's written. I'm not in denial of reality when I talk about Paul. And I sincerely doubt that Ed Hudgins makes voting decisions based upon a denial of reality. (I've read lots of his articles as well).
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I've never liked Rothbard.

Post 25

Wednesday, October 10, 2012 - 9:15pmSanction this postReply
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MEM,
How about Paul Ryan?
Okay, okay. It's seems like you "got me." It's reasonable to conclude that Paul Ryan would recommend at least half of the books that Ron Paul did. That makes for 2 politicians -- out of over 500 -- that are really very libertarian-minded. Anyway, thanks for keeping me honest.

Ed


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