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Post 40

Monday, September 26, 2005 - 11:16pmSanction this postReply
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Brant,

I'm saying nothing more than that Barbara Branden began saying bad things about Rand the same day that her business proposal to take over the school of Rand's philosophy was rejected.

Did I say anything else?

Do these facts imply something to you?

Don't blame me, I'm only the piano player.

Casey


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Post 41

Monday, September 26, 2005 - 11:18pmSanction this postReply
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Hahahaha, Joe! I'm glad you 'fessed up to deleting those posts. I had no idea what he was talking about! :-)

We've shown him every leniency. He even started a thread calling me, one of his hosts, a pompous ass. Emotional maturity of a baby. And that's being hard on babies.

Linz

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Post 42

Monday, September 26, 2005 - 11:38pmSanction this postReply
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Casey, just to say as you did that Barbara Branden "smeared" Ayn Rand is ipso facto a smear in itself. Now that I've called you on it you want to reference it out.

--Brant

(Edited by Brant Gaede on 9/27, 12:03am)


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Post 43

Tuesday, September 27, 2005 - 12:11amSanction this postReply
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I though I was the pompous ass (of the first order). Ooops. Wrong forum...

//;-)

Michael


Post 44

Tuesday, September 27, 2005 - 12:57amSanction this postReply
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Huh?

Barbara Branden started saying Rand was out of her mind hours after Rand rejected Barbara's bid to run NBI, according to the evidence.

If you don't want to call that "smearing," that's your scruple, and you're welcome to it.


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Post 45

Tuesday, September 27, 2005 - 8:35amSanction this postReply
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Casey, if you just want to make a naked statement that Barbara Branden "smeared..." without telling us specifically what you are talking about, I'm going to call you out on it and I did. Your subjective evaluation of the facts, whatever they are, doesn't interest me other than that.

--Brant


Post 46

Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 6:44amSanction this postReply
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When is a 'smear' NOT a 'smear'?

When anyone you like (definitionally including *you*)...didn't receive it...and those you dis-like, did.  Else-wise, even a mere accusation of 'smearing' is...'smearing'; this includes, of course, the accusation that "A just 'smeared' B". Indeed, all accusations, per se, because they are accusations, are automatically 'smearing.' --- Sounds like the terms 'abuse' and 'offense' have just acquired a triplet sibling for 'handy-negative-euphemisms' which = "I feel insulted and I dislike it, you immoral person, you!"

--- Critique, criticize, complain, condescend, evaluate/analyze-worthwhileness (negatively), innuend, insinuate, imply, side-swipe, needle, 'attack', smear. --- Are there any differences therein? Or, are they all merely, stupidly, 'subjective' (according to who's giving and who's getting) as in "He's 'pig-headed'; you're (occasionally) 'stubborn'; whereas,  *I* ...am...'steadfast'."

Are there any other things (or, words for the same thing, which is that horribly most innocuous-sounding, yet offensively, insultingly, dislikeable-because-so-ambiguous-and-2nd-most-'abused'-term... 'offend') we can all continue to do to promote our non-obvious goal of... O'ist interactive productivity?

J-D


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Post 47

Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 1:47amSanction this postReply
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The concept of a "smear" has a very precise referent. It does not mean "saying bad things about someone." It does not even mean "deliberately trying to hurt someone's reputation by saying bad things about them." Nor, as Jon Dailey claims, does it mean "all accusations, per se, because they are accusations, are automatically 'smearing.'"

Instead, "smear" means "a FALSE ACCUSATION that is INTENDED to damage someone's reputation."

Casey Fahy says Barbara Branden was "smearing" Ayn Rand from the moment she said Rand was "out of her mind" shortly after Rand turned down her business proposal regarding NBI. Is this true?

First of all, was Barbara's statement an accusation that Rand was clinically insane, or simply the alarmed observation that Rand was in an irrational and unstable state of mind and was making bad decisions? I think it's clear from the context that Barbara meant the latter.

Suppose then, secondly, that Barbara meant the latter, but that it was false. In other words, suppose Rand wasn't really behaving in an irrational, unstable manner and making unwise decisions. Now, you have to ask: did Barbara know that her statement was false? Again, from the context, it sounds like Barbara actually thought Rand was being irrational and unstable and destructive in her decisions. Indeed, I think it's clear from PAR that Barbara had been concerned for some time about Rand's emotional stability in relation to Nathaniel and the future of the Objectivist movement, if Nathaniel's affair with Patrecia were revealed. She may have been wrong about Rand's mental stability and the potential for a catastrophic outcome of a break between Rand and Nathaniel, but on the face of it, this was an ongoing concern of both Barbara and Nathaniel.

Thirdly, was Barbara's comment intended to hurt Rand's reputation among the others in the Inner Circle, or was it only intended to express her own hurt and indignation at Rand's emotionally flailing around in ways that hurt not only Nathaniel and Barbara, but many others who valued and benefited from the NBI Lectures? Once more, I think it's clearly the latter.

You have to stack up a lot of implausible, worst-case interpretations of Barbara's motivations and beliefs in order to establish all three of the essential aspects of a smear that Fahy claims are present in Barbara's saying that Rand was "out of her mind." At the very least, there's plenty of room for reasonable doubt on each of those facets. And more likely, Barbara was simply reflecting her own upset, alarmed feelings in that comment.

As for Barbara's later comments about Rand (as in PAR), again you have to discern whether Barbara is trying to tear down Rand, or rather to provide a more balanced perspective of the woman than anyone previously had in print. Even if Barbara's comments about Rand's flawed nature are mistaken, in order for them to amount to evidence of a smear, you would have to be confident that she knew they were mistaken and that she was deliberately trying to foist them off on her readers, in order to get them to think poorly of Rand.

Neither such knowledge nor such intent are clearly discernable in Barbara's words and actions. It is for this reason that calling Barbara's comment a "smear" is itself a smear.

REB



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