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Wednesday, April 27, 2005 - 5:34amSanction this postReply
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Thanks, Fred, for the review.  I have the Loeb Classic Library edition.  I really depend on being able to see the Greek for myself.  When I work in Greek, I need a dictionary and a grammar, but for casual reading, just seeing the original can be helpful. 

Fred wrote: "Trying to find, say, 205a30, is a real bitch. The ‘30” is by itself on p. 86 and the ‘205a’ is on p. 85."   

Without seeing the book, it is hard to know whom to blame.  I published a translation of The Treaty of Mytilene.  The treaty already has been translated at least five times, for instance in Testimonia Numaria by John Melville Jones. However, Jones handwrote a note to himself in the margin of a galley and it was typeset into the text.  Based on that gaffe, Jones gave me his permission to take a whack at the treaty on my own.

Fred wrote: "... why put up with translations like “substance,” “essence,” “actuality,” when “thinghood,” “what-it-is-for-something-to-be” and “being at work” are closer to the way Aristotle wrote..."

We become mired in our cultural context.

"to gar auto ama uparchein te kai me uparchein adunaton too autoo kai kata to auto."

"the indeed self at once originate and not originate unable to the self and against the self."

It is impossible for the same attribute to at once belong to and not belong to the same thing in the same relation. -- Aristotle's law of the excluded middle.


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Wednesday, April 27, 2005 - 10:31amSanction this postReply
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Michael,
"to gar auto ama uparchein te kai me uparchein adunaton too autoo kai kata to auto."

"the indeed self at once originate and not originate unable to the self and against the self."

It is impossible for the same attribute to at once belong to and not belong to the same thing in the same relation. -- Aristotle's law of the excluded middle.
I loved that. LOL

Having been a translator, you should see what happens when an original text in Englsh is translated into German, then into Portuguese, then they can't find the English version any longer so they ask that that mess be translated.

I have actually come across Portuguese equivalents of "the indeed self at once originate and not originate unable to the self and against the self." This here is a gem, though, being Aristotle and all.  //;-)

Michael


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Thursday, April 28, 2005 - 6:50amSanction this postReply
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MEM and MSK,

Great posts. My translations have been limited to word, sentence or short paragraph. I wonder what MSK would think of my translation of Nietzsche in my book AYN RAND, OBJECTIVISTS AND THE HISTORY OF PHILOSOPHY. My mother forbade my German grandmother to speak German around us when we were kids--needless to say I've never forgiven her for that. One question. Are you guys like me in this respect, I hate to see the Greek transliterated. I much prefer the shape of the Greek letters and find I can "read" it more quickly than the when it is transliterated.
Again thanks for you posts. I am planning to review the other Sachs translations of Aristotle.
MSK--I assume LOL means Lots of Loeb. Tee hee.
Fred

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Thursday, April 28, 2005 - 7:03amSanction this postReply
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MEM,

"I have the Loeb Classic Library edition. I really depend on being able to see the Greek for myself. When I work in Greek, I need a dictionary and a grammar, but for casual reading, just seeing the original can be helpful."

Can't believe I missed this on my first read or I wouldn't have ask my questions about transliterations. I absolutely concur. But I do have a new question. Is

"to gar auto ama uparchein te kai me uparchein adunaton too autoo kai kata to auto."

"the indeed self at once originate and not originate unable to the self and against the self."

yours. What is the story behind this "translation?"

Fred

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