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Post 40

Sunday, March 25, 2012 - 8:11pmSanction this postReply
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Tres,

I'd like to find out the specific criticisms your friends had. Did they just say that it is "mush" -- or did they go into more detail than that. My least favorite part about the movie was when it appeared as if those dog-like creatures were created ex nihilo. I cannot stand it in movies when characters travel back and forth in time (because that's impossible), and I can't stand it when something is created out of absolutely nothing (also impossible) -- and we are just supposed to accept that sort of thing. It might as well be a movie about round squares at that point.

Ed 


Post 41

Monday, March 26, 2012 - 4:19amSanction this postReply
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Post 42

Monday, March 26, 2012 - 4:55amSanction this postReply
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Thanks, Tres.

Some of the criticisms I had ("Twilight"-feel; poor character development; impossible or unrealistic events) showed up in these FaceBook criticisms, but with more magnitude than I presented them. Perhaps if I had read the books first, I may have been as critical. I still appreciate the movie overall for the important story it told. For instance:

The "fake" love between Katniss and Peeta wasn't, in my mind, fodder for criticism, because I interpreted it as being an example of the deranged and contorted reactions that one can have when faced with a such an irrational and powerful force as a totalitarian government that literally cannot see beyond its own nose. There are stories about what Nazi prison guards made prisoners do, actions that they made them take. None of it was rational.

That's the whole point about human interaction under the duress of brute force, isn't it?

:-)

Ed


Post 43

Monday, March 26, 2012 - 8:12amSanction this postReply
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I had no idea that Daniel Brent, of all people, wasn't going to like the movie!

I'll have to reconsider seeing the movie.

I've reconsidered. I think the book is awesome political art. And I understood the significance of the 4th generation of inculcation.

The 74 years of inculcation and dominance might have been too subtle a plot mechanism, and like most books, this one is probably difficult to bring to the screen.

Is it possible Mr. Daniel Brent just didn't like the themes, and this is his Twitter-ready way of aspiring to Whitaker Chambers?

regards,
Fred


Post 44

Monday, March 26, 2012 - 10:54amSanction this postReply
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Sam:

Instead of providing a reasonable scenario for our heroine getting out of a jam she chooses the weakest way possible: deus ex machina, where her necessities of survival magically appear via little white parachutes from nowhere, bearing iodine for purifying water, fever medicine, etc. For teens just coming out from fairy tales this might be acceptable but for more mature audiences it's just lame.

That, and the 'muttations' were not very satisfying. But I accepted them as 'shortcuts.' She seems to have traded off detailed exposition in exchange for her dead sprint pace, and that can be a little unsatisfying. Dead sprint pace is subjective; clearly, for those who have no trouble reading the trilogy in a weekend, the pace is rapid.

The parachutes were explained, however; they didn't simply just appear. They came from their sponsors, in response to the 24/7 televised reception of The Games. The technical aspect of 'how' was not explained. One would assume, dropped from little brown UPS hovercraft above, with remarkable GPS-like precision. She could have eaten up a lot more plot line by making this delivery mechanism more 'believable' in our present context-- for instance, the material would show up at a lock-box, and they would have had to fight their way to it. What was parachuted to them would have been a little UPS notice, "You have a package waiting, now go fight for it, or we will take it back after three attempts to deliver." Her actual plot line did not suffer from lack of conflict, however, and so... these shortcuts.

But I can see the author just saying 'screw it, it's not that important, I'm going to just deux ex machina it and not fill in the blanks on the how.' She plastered this over a bit, however, by making it clear that these gifts from sponsors were prohibitively expensive, and got more expensive as time went on.


Wart free? Hardly. Primarily aimed at young kids? No doubt. But the fact is, plenty of adults who don't regard themselves as child-like find the story's accessible and readable and will forgive those warts and are very encouraged that art with these themes--even as subtle background wallpaper(I don't believe they are subtle for an instant)--are as widely embraced by the current youngest generation in America.

We can probe the verity and reasons for this, and ask if that is because they like the love story or the kick ass heroine or the idea of kids killing kids with weapons and being on national TV while doing so, etc., but the themes of totalitarian dominance are so heavily painted(in a negative light)that I don't think they can be totally ignored, even by teens, even if just as an aftertaste.

It is the right political aftertaste; the rebellious Che reluctant heroine in this story is not fighting for a totalitarian tribal utopia, but against.

regards,
Fred

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Post 45

Monday, March 26, 2012 - 11:25amSanction this postReply
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For those not willing to fight their way to the movies to see this(I haven't seen the movie yet, I might wait and rent it)there is this bit of twentysomething art:

for fun

Full disclosure: my son was one of the 'puppeteers,' which is how I found out about this(and the book and the movie.)

They took a lot of liberties and had fun with the retelling, but surprisingly, they played it pretty straight to the book.

The themes of totalitarian dominance are not widely evident in this 11 minute digital short(nor is it explained why the Games exist, which is exactly totalitarian dominance and concentrated central power.)

But, they had a lot of (affectionate) fun with a cultural tsunami, so .. lighten up and watch this. It is fun.

You have to watch not so closely to pick up some of the humour. (Spoilers follow:)

Katniss Everbean. Peeta Mallark is a ...duck; a Mallard who gives bread. The Peacekeepers are Peace Bears. Ceaser Flickerman sitting on a copy of the book...resting on a copy of Battle Royale. Muttation/dogs humping at 8:44 on the lower right frame. (I gave him some crap about that.) There is probably more...

regards,
Fred

Post 46

Monday, March 26, 2012 - 3:37pmSanction this postReply
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Haven't read it, and haven't seen it, but from what I hear, re: the Minotaur story similarity, it brings to mind Mary Renault's THE KING MUST DIE (a more "realistic" retelling of the "Theseus and the Minotaur" myth, where Theseus volunteers himself for the sacrifice...

Post 47

Monday, March 26, 2012 - 4:10pmSanction this postReply
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Ha, I completely enjoyed the video, Fred. And look at all the views!  Really well done!   I watched an older one done with Barbie and Ken dolls, house plants and colored tissue paper.  Really clever.

Post 48

Monday, March 26, 2012 - 8:51pmSanction this postReply
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I enjoyed the video; it was cute.

Also, the "humping" part made me chuckle.

Post 49

Friday, March 30, 2012 - 4:43pmSanction this postReply
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Thanks Jules!

Really that good eh? I wrote it in a flurry of keystrokes, paying little attention to what I was actually typing. For some reason, the article and pictures of the movie in the "Go" section excited me.

There are actually two pictures in the "Go" section. I only spoke of one (the one on the main cover of the "Go" section).

The second picture accompanied the article and it is, IMO, the more powerful of the two. This picture displays a scene of a crowded stadium; I can even hear the shouts and cheers of the spectators. In the foreground is Katniss, her back turned to the viewer. Large banners hang above the crowds. On the banners, on the left side of the stadium, is Katniss. The banners to the right display the image of a teenage boy. Katniss, and the images on the banners, are all looking up at the giant, fiery symbol of a bird with an arrow held in its beak.


Fred,

So the left can't stop the force this movie will create, they can however direct it by misrepresentation. For the alert and suspicious, it will be easy to see through this tactic. But for those not so alert, the more passive minds, they won't, herein lies the danger.


Sam,

*Spoiler*

I think the supplies delivered via parachute were very appropriate for the movie. The supplies could be symbolic of the Capitol's control over the games AND their control over the districts. The way supplies are gained is through sponsorship. The Capitol's elite must like a participant before they aid him/her. This has significance both in the world of "The Hunger Games" and our own. Think in terms of political favors.

In a highly centralized economy resources aren't delivered via purchasing power. Rather they are delivered unto those who have political pull. This is, in a sense, what Katniss gained. She gained the favor of the elite by entertaining them and they rewarded her accordingly.

*Spoiler*


On another note, has anyone here read Stephen King's "The Long Walk"? He wrote it under the pen name "Richard Bachman".

*Spoilers contained in summary*

The book takes place in a dystopian, present-day U.S where totalitarianism is prevalent. A contest is held annually to entertain the masses, keep them subservient, and enshrine obedience and sacrifice to the nation. This contest consists of walking over 4 mph for an indefinite distance. The ultimate goal is to outlast every other participant in the walk; the ultimate reward being a life filled with luxury, unlike anything normal citizens could ever hope to experience. This contest requests that 100 young men participate, all young men join voluntarily (the reasons why they join is explained by each young man as the walk progresses). Participants are eliminated by receiving warnings if and when they fall below 4 mph walking speed (they can jog too if they wish). Once the 3 warnings are received, a final warning prompts a rifle man (who rides on a half-track that follows the walkers) to shoot the participant.

This entire contest relayed on national television, in front of an entire nation. People line the sides of the road the walkers travel on, the crowds cheer when someone is killed. In fact, that is the reason why most people watch the event, and why most gather at the farthest ends of the road. They want to see young men walk, struggle, fight, and, ultimately, die.

*Spoilers contained in summary*

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Post 50

Monday, April 2, 2012 - 4:31amSanction this postReply
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Attended the movie this weekend with my family, we all loved it.

I think there are three broad sets of critics, none of which am I a member of:

1] Those who found theatrical problems with the movie as a movie; movie making/acting imperfections, mostly subjective. (For example, none of us once thought that the cameraman had , er, "Parkinson's Disease" --and I thought I over-used hyperbole.)

2] Those who were such rabid fans of the book that they were critical that the movie missed some beloved elements.

3] Those who were such rabid opponents and/or simply uncomfortable with a wildly popular presentation of the tribe-gone-insane themes in both the book and the movie that they must, by necessity, trash and spin both the book and the movie, or at least, gently condemn it and try to discourage others to read or see it. Tribe Uber Alles, propagandists for the war of the We over the I.

regards,
Fred







Post 51

Sunday, April 8, 2012 - 4:26amSanction this postReply
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Kyle, I read The Long Walk.  That's what I thought of when someone described The Hunger Games to me.  I couldn't remember the name, though.  So thanks!  I read it a long time ago, but liked it at the time.

Post 52

Tuesday, April 10, 2012 - 6:04amSanction this postReply
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I just finished reading the trilogy and enjoyed them all. But I was disappointed that the evil portrayed was left concrete and never identified by principle. I'm not asking for long philosophical discussions embedded in the books, but just a mention of what the evil is. The characters should have said that people should be free and government's job isn't to rule them. Instead, the evil was left in specific concrete forms of the specific bad characters and the specific bad things they did.

I doubt that the responses of the average readers ever left the sense of life plane. At the end, the new government may prove to be as totalitarian as the old one, except maybe they won't have hunger games.

Post 53

Wednesday, April 25, 2012 - 10:13amSanction this postReply
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Steve:

SPOILER ALERT: DON"T READ IF YOU DONT WANT TO KNOW THE ENDING

Towards the end of the third book, it certainly seemed that was the case; that the 'new' government was trending as totalitarian as the 'old' government.

But at the -very- end, the protagonist/heroine -- at the supposed execution of Snow, the tyrant at the head of the 'old' government -- shocks the televised world by putting an arrow instead through the heart of Coin, the assumed head of the 'new' government.

I interpreted that as , 'oh no you don't.' Snow dies as well, but ... laughing.

As well, it is not the happiest of endings, although it is ultimately a kind of happy ending. I interpreted that as, 'there are consequences, prices to pay, even for an imperfect peace and freedom.' In that sense, I thought it was a realistic ending, not a fairly tale ending.

regards,
Fred
(Edited by Fred Bartlett on 4/25, 10:15am)


Post 54

Wednesday, April 25, 2012 - 12:06pmSanction this postReply
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Fred,

The mockingjay continued to fight against tyranny through the end of the book.  Her last act, which at first appears to be uncertain, after some re-evaluation is determined to be justified.  No matter whether the attack that killed mockingjay's love was caused by which leader, both heads of government were proven to be brutally economy controlling and sentenced innocent people to death.  The manner in which the mockingjay did good was not always fully thought out, many times doing the right thing by intuition.  Mockingjay's one action which seems to be inconsistent: her vote to continue the games, was not genuine, but only used to trick others into trusting her.

As for Snow, I can't remember why I thought he appeared amused.  One can only speculate the inner thoughts of a person who orchestrates the murder of innocents.  I could never trust appearances or words of such a person, only know them by their actions.


Post 55

Saturday, April 28, 2012 - 7:29amSanction this postReply
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Fred,

I agree... it was a good ending, not the happiest, but it maintained integrity. And, like I said, I enjoyed the trilogy but wish that it did a better job of stating explicitly what they were fighting for. It was too easy to see that arrow that killed Coin as a very narrow "No more Hunger Games" rather than "No more tyranny." The ending, and the books, stayed too concrete... too close to the specifics despite doing so well in arousing a positive sense-of-life response of those who (explicitly or implicitly) value individuality and freedom.

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