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The Hunger Games by Suzanne Collins

Bought this yesterday, finished it last night. Was drawn to it because of the interest by my 24 year old son. IMO, one of the most wildly effective political books aimed at modern youth ever. And, this is great, fantastic news for Ayn Rand fans. It's crystal clear depiction of heroic individuals in the face of an oppressive to... (See the whole review)

(Added by Fred Bartlett on 3/17, 11:34am)

Discuss this Book (56 messages)

Tuesday, March 20, 2012 - 6:37am

The author pounds her themes with a sledge hammer, can't be missed.

As citizen/subjects in the districts/economic zones struggle to live and barely have enough to eat, those who live in the central Capitol district have special medicines which permit them to endlessly gorge themselves and vomit and regorge themselves at food banquets. (Aside: the implication is that these elixers aided the process, made it less unpleasant than in fact it is for most of us, except maybe for bulemics. There is controversy over whether the Roman elite ever widely practiced this, and some say that the architectural feature 'vomitoria' was a structural device which allowed large crowds to efficiently 'spew' out of a public place, and not a puke room for banquets...but beside the point in the context of the story, which is, those in central power prospered while those doing all the work suffered, in thrall to the state.)

America is a hundred years away from this, in the author's hypothetical world. And today, with five minutes of research on Zillow, you can examine the history of the real estate market in Northern Va and compare it to the rest of the nation during this recent economic recession.

It's good to live in the Capitol. Opportunity abounds.

Not nearly so good to live in Detroit. Opportunity is defined by occasional scraps taken from some and returned to others from afar, as long as those others have connections to the Capitol.

regards,
Fred

Tuesday, March 20, 2012 - 6:44am

We cannot have lived through, or even, accurately looked back at the twentieth century, and still hold the belief that it is impossible for mankind to do this to other mankind;

It is exactly what unfettered mankind will do to other mankind, given half the chance, and what unfetters mankind is our sloppy politics and inattention to the foundations of freedom.

As in, a nation presently blowing in the wind between two parties of power, neither of which seems to have the first clue.

Stories like this, a popular cultural tsunami phenomenon, provide at least some hope that at least our kids are broadly getting that first clue.

regards,
Fred

Tuesday, March 20, 2012 - 8:09am

Peter, Collins was a huge fan of mythology as a child, particularly of that story.
(Edited by Teresa Summerlee Isanhart on 3/20, 8:10am)

Tuesday, March 20, 2012 - 8:37am

ITunes has the audio book listed in "children's non-fiction. " (!)

Thursday, March 22, 2012 - 1:11pm

Some recent news regarding ticket sales of the film:

More than 2,000 Shows of �Hunger Games� Already Sold Out

Ed

Thursday, March 22, 2012 - 7:43pm

Bill O'Reilly had a piece on the Hunger Games tonight and the discussion centered on whether the movie might be too violent for tweens and young viewers. I'm half way through the book and can understand why this might be a concern but suspect that most of the violence might be in the second half of the story.

I'm enjoying the book but not overly so. From my personal perspective I don't relate all that much to the detail the author gives to the dresses, styles and so on but will be appreciated by young girls.

I find similarities to Anthem and Atlas Shrugged. I doubt if the author intentionally made a connection, nevertheless I see, in both Hunger Games and Anthem the fire and ambition to overcome the repression of living in a dysfunctional society. I hope our heroine is able to bring down the whole evil "Capitol." The choice of Colorado as the focus of the action is reminiscent of Atlas Shrugged but the description of the train in the tunnel might not be a mere coincidence. Does anyone know if Suzanne Collins has been influenced by Ayn Rand?

Why did the author chose thirteen as the number of "Districts"? To be the original colonies of the US? Were the "tributes" being allegorically paid to King George III or to the present day overarching authority of Washington, D.C.?

Sam

(Edited by Sam Erica on 3/22, 7:44pm)

Thursday, March 22, 2012 - 10:36pm

As I type this, the doors are opening for the first viewing at my city's local cinema.

A little earlier tonight an article in the Omaha World Herald caught my eye. Its focus was on the violence in the movie and whether parents should take young kids and teens to see the movie.

I decided to continue on to the "Go" section of the paper, to search for any mention of "The Hunger Games".

On Thursdays, the Omaha World Herald showcases the latest art, movie, etc. in a stand-alone section of the paper entitled "Go". This image didn't just catch my eye, it flooded my vision. The entire front cover of the "Go" section displayed an incredible image. It was a close-up of Katniss looking down the "sights" of her bow as she pulls back the bowstring. Just below her face is the symbol (it appears to be on a ring in the picture) of a bird with an arrow clutched in its beak. The ring, itself, appears to be surrounded by some strange aura.

In the middle of this picture, written is white text, are the words "Let the Games begin" (Games being in bold font). Below this, another caption appears, it says "'The Hunger Games' has cross-generational appeal." The article the picture corresponds with speaks of just that, "The Hunger Games"'s popularity among both the young and old.

In this article, interviews with fans are presented, I was disappointed that none of them touched upon the main theme of the story. The testimonies mention the romance, Katniss's strong character, and the action. One does go so far as to connect the events in the plot to current culture. But this is only a remark about American's love for reality tv.

While reading, I ask myselfl "Are these people really missing the story's glaring, central theme?"

Well, I shouldn't expect an analysis of the story's themes and ideas, especially not in a public column. But is a mention so much to ask for?

Additionally, in both articles (the one in the "Go" section AND the one in the main section of the newspaper), people are getting hung-up about the violence. About kids killing kids. But no one seems to be asking "why?" Why are these kids killing each other? This is the question they should be asking.

Despite these testimonies and reservations about the violence, I have a feeling that this theme isn't going away any time soon. This movie won't silently fade away into the night. A thunderclap has sounded, the reverberations are shaking the movie and entertainment industries. Screen-writers, authors, directors will follow suit, now that they know such movies are popular. Expect to see a stream of variations and adaptions of this movie, all possessing the same theme.

Is this too much to hope for. I don't think so.

(Edited by Kyle Jacob Biodrowski on 3/22, 10:42pm)

Thursday, March 22, 2012 - 11:37pm

Kyle YOU should be writing the movie review for the paper, that was a great post!

Friday, March 23, 2012 - 6:32am

Kyle:

I think there are going to be two very broad groups of people generally aware of this cultural tsunami:

A] People who read the book and/or see the movie.

B] People who do not, but who will only hear about it based on critics' reviews and articles in Parade and so on.

IMO, I don't think it is going to be widely possible for anyone in group A to miss the author's themes, so I am not worried in the least about any of them getting the wrong ideas from critics' reviews and articles in Parade and so on. In fact, with them, much of that will backfire and reinforce the themes(as one of those themes is a sellout media in fealty to service to the state.)

The spin in the latter, I think, is purely 'damage control.' Because they can't suppress it and it isn't going away. But they can influence people who will have never read the books or seen the movie...and that they must.

Just like they try to do with AS and other works that have the 'wrong' politics.

We need to never forget what 'politics' is: the art and science of getting what we want from other people.

"To be left alone to live in freedom" is also a political desire. It is what some want from others.

I had someone try to tell me that they were 'apolitical' the other day. What they meant was that they believed something akin to the above. That is the most difficult politics of all in a barely fettered tribe; by all evidence, it is the most profoundly difficult political wish of all to actually realize.

I thought it was Menken(but I'm not sure)who said "A man who says he isn't interested in politics is like a drowning man who says he isn't interested in water." We can try to close our door to politics, but it is exactly like water, and it will rise inside our homes like a flood if unchecked.

regards,
Fred

Friday, March 23, 2012 - 6:45am

People here seem to assume that that the movie is going to be effective at selling a political message to its audience. Even if it's a commercial success, as this one is apparently going to be, that's questionable. The movie industry has been stridently anti-capitalist and anti-American for at least forty years, and popular opinion has moved largely in the opposite direction. I wonder if people who read the book or see the movie will even notice a message, much less buy into it.

Hunger Games is, I gather, gratifying to people who already hold certain beliefs. If that's the only evidence you have, it's the only conclusion you're entitled to draw.

Friday, March 23, 2012 - 6:53am

Sam:

I'm enjoying the book but not overly so. From my personal perspective I don't relate all that much to the detail the author gives to the dresses, styles and so on but will be appreciated by young girls.

My take on that was, it was a device to show the total disconnect between life in The Capitol and the districts in thrall to The Capitol. I didn't take her exposition to be favorable to the practice, though maybe a teenage girl might. I also (because as a reader, we only experience this intellectually, not in fact) had to remind myself that these were the 74th Games... 16 year old Katniss was about the 4th generation that had lived under this thrall.

But kind of moot; I never noticed a part where the author dwelled on anything for too long, she seemed to me to be in a dead sprint.

At first....Katniss is remarkably accepting/resigned...totally dominated by the fact of what the state is demanding of her. She and all of the people of the districts have long been inculcated to what is expected of them at these Games, at what is about to happen as an inevitability. That is in fact their purpose, their reason for being; to reinforce the acceptance of the domination of The Capitol over the people of the districts.

I think your guess on the '13' is a good one; I hope someone asks the author that question at some point.

Suddenly -this movie- is too violent, and now we aren't going to take our kids to see -this movie?- These aren't 'kids killing kids.' These are kids forced by the state to kill other kids.

I think O'Reilly is like Rush, and totally fatfingers it sometimes. He's clearly reading someone else's Cliff Notes on this one, is missing the significance of the book like everyone else who is relying on retelling by others.

Many are reviewing 'The Titanic' and leaving out the part about the boat sinking(while others barely mention it at all, in passing, as if it was a minor event.) Folks who read the book and see the movie should start to ask themselves why is this being done?

regards,
Fred

Friday, March 23, 2012 - 7:05am

Peter:

I wonder if people who read the book or see the movie will even notice a message, much less buy into it.

That is certainly possible. But, have you read the book?

If, after reading the book, you still believe that, then let me know.

If this is widely read, and if that audience widely misses the authors' themes, or worse -- comes away with 'Hey, wouldn't it really be cool if we actually had single survivor fight to the death Olympics every year, and it was televised by the state, and we were all forced to watch all of it, and although 90% of the nation lived in thrall to the other 10% at the point of the states guns, if we were at least lucky enough to be that 10% pointing the guns then we could paint our hair pink and eat all we want and gorge ourselves and vomit and regorge ourselves and only watch these Games on TV ... well, if that is the broad take-away, then ... run! I'll be right behind you!

But..where we going?

regards,
Fred

Friday, March 23, 2012 - 7:51am

Peter, I haven't read the book yet (... I will soon), but I think people get their emotional charge from a well-made book or movie in accordance with their sense of life. The young naturally gravitate towards themes of freedom, courage and sucessessful outcomes. We here at this site tend to be intellectual and look at the philosophical content first. The average person will respond according to their sense of life, their deepest held principles and then to associate their response to the storyline contents - working their way towards the principles that support the plot. When a novel or movie is educational, that is the pattern... It strikes an emotional chord with the person and they respond by taking in the relationship between the theme and the storyline and paying more attention with the forebrain to the more explicit messages - that is the education.

This only works with a properly integrated story - where potentially powerful themes are shown in a state of conflict and are resolved by a plot. When a writer tries to push a message directly, it is just propoganda and has no impact. When a story evokes powerful emotions, people want to align themselves with the implied principles.

Friday, March 23, 2012 - 9:31am

Steve:

Well said.

The themes that seem glaring to some might be background wallpaper to others.

But let me tell you, I'll take it! Because it is outstanding background wallpaper that these millions are being exposed to, overtly conscious of it or not.

The usual background wallpaper is big, bad business and capitalism sucks and so on. The 'capitalists' in this movie are being dominated by the 'capitolists' -- the districts create everything in the nation and benefit from none of it, while The Capitol only rules via force and benefits from all of it-- and I admit, the similarity between "Capitol" and "Capital" will confuse your basic OWS idiot enough to get by.

But even as barely perceptible background wallpaper, the theme is going to permeate the culture. It is going to leave a decided aftertaste.

Of course nobody has a crystal ball and can tell how big an aftertaste; my point is, after decades of predominant popular culture with a background wallpaper selling the opposite, I'm encouraged that this example is going to be in the alternate sense.

At one end of this road is the kindly, benevolent government camp manager in 'Grapes of Wrath.' He's not to be found in The Hunger Games.

Not even close.

regards,
Fred

(Edited by Fred Bartlett on 3/23, 9:55am)

Saturday, March 24, 2012 - 1:36pm

ITunes has the audio book listed in "children's non-fiction. " (!)

Hehe. I just caught that, Tres. It pays to read the fine print.

:-)

Ed

Saturday, March 24, 2012 - 4:31pm

I just spent 3 days reading the three Hunger Games books. I recommend the books. I do not recommend reading all of them in 3 days, it gave me an eye strain headache that made me feel nauseous for the 3rd and 4th day.

As for them being a child's book, I'd flat out deny it. This isn't some children are in school trying to flirt between classes romance with a little bit of trouble with the principal. This is children at a younger age becoming adults earlier than our protectionist society allows... because their society is so communist that their parents die and they have to raise their younger siblings.

The younger characters have to make important decisions, sometimes in deadly situations, and they are frequently unable to go to their wiser elder friends for advice due to hidden monitoring devices. Compare this to your average "adult" movie where the main characters do not even make decisions, they are simply tossed around by the plot.

I'll look forward to seeing it on the big screen tomorrow.

Saturday, March 24, 2012 - 6:54pm

I don't want to be too critical because Collins has been writing primarily for a teen audience and in that she has succeeded spectacularly, and her message that girls should be bold and resourceful is to be commended. However, I found problems with how she dealt with the details of the occurrences in the events. Instead of providing a reasonable scenario for our heroine getting out of a jam she chooses the weakest way possible: deus ex machina, where her necessities of survival magically appear via little white parachutes from nowhere, bearing iodine for purifying water, fever medicine, etc. For teens just coming out from fairy tales this might be acceptable but for more mature audiences it's just lame.

Spoiler alert. Near the end we are led to believe that Katniss is really and finally in love with Peeta after having many doubts about his loyalty and sincerity, but as the episode ends we learn that she is conflicted. To me, this was unsatisfactory and the only reason I think that Collins did that was to leave the door open for the next volume and keep her readers hanging in anticipation

Flashback to what some of you may know � "Swept Away" directed by Lina Wertmuller (not to be confused with the 2002 remake.) This is one of my all-time favorites. In this film the female love interest is also finally seduced by material wealth and easy lifestyle and forsakes her true lover; but this is a masterpiece of adult love and sexuality.

Sam

Saturday, March 24, 2012 - 6:59pm

Spoiler Alert

I just watched the movie on the big screen tonight and I loved it. Due to good screenplay writing, good directing and good acting (good cinema, all around), you can really connect with the characters well. However, as a staunch, philosophical idealogue, while thoroughly enjoying the visual and auditory journey through the movie's plot, I was specifically looking for anti-statist themes. There were only about 3 times when a pure and unadulterated, anti-statism theme (the kind you'd get from Galt's or even Roark's speeches) was all but spelled out for you and then thrown into your face.

Contrary to writings by Rand, there was very little character development for the bad guys. In retrospect, this might have been planned. If the character of the bad guys is left somewhat open, then we can fill-in our favorite kind of bad guy (including our current politicians!) in order to integrate the story more seamlessly with our actual lives. There is one line that stood out for me and it was spoken by the president. It was about hope and fear, and how it is that a little hope is good to stoke when attempting to perpetuate a totalitarian dictatorship -- if the hope is kept in check via brute force. Fear is good, but fear with just a sprinkling of hope will get people to jump into their chains. With just a glimmer of hope, they will even make the rope with which you need to hang them. Does anybody remember that catchy phrase 'hope and change'?

:-)

Besides that line -- thoroughly revealing the predatory nature of the president (the one in the movie, not the one we have in real life) -- there were a couple times when someone said they yearned for the autonomy of an unwavering individualism. A kind of "shake-your-fist-at-the-man" recalcitrancy. Anyway, like I said, I loved the movie and really connected with the characters. I just wish that there was a time when the truly-lovable protagonist stopped acting, looked straight at the camera, and said:

Are you watching this, you people in America? This is the kind of organized, heinous barbarism that your very own country is currently headed for! This is your very own politicians' dream world. This is how opportunistic and shamelessly predatory they are (so throw them all out).

:-)

Oh well, I guess I'll just have to take what I can get, and I certainly cannot complain about this movie. It reminded me of the movie: "V for Vendetta", another good movie with at least some subtle, if not obvious, anti-statism themes; though I found that V was obviously more "in your face" with the anti-statism message than was HG. In creating HG, it was almost as if they crossed V for Vendetta with Twilight: New Moon (or with Survivor, for that matter) -- resulting in a watering-down of the politics while, at the same time, a ramping-up of the appeal to our youthful sentiments. I'm not sure I agree with the trade-off, but for the third time: I simply will not complain. I consider the movie an overall philosophical/cultural success.

And that's saying something.

Ed

(Edited by Ed Thompson on 3/24, 7:14pm)

Sunday, March 25, 2012 - 12:56pm

Anyone remember the show "logan's run"?

Sunday, March 25, 2012 - 2:07pm

A Facebook Objectivist friend absolutely hated the movie. He said it was "mush," and horrible writing. He's never read the books. A friend of his, who did read the books, hated it too!

(I loved Logan's Run!)