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Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 9:23amSanction this postReply
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Excellent, I now know what to ask for on my thirty-(mumble)th birthday...

Cheers Mister Cordero, Sir.

(Edited by Robert Winefield on 6/22, 9:24am)


Post 1

Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 10:30amSanction this postReply
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Robert: Excellent, I now know what to ask for on my thirty-(mumble)th birthday...

What's that, thirty-mumble you say, I wish I was still mumbling like that!

Thanks for the cheers, and enjoy the Tchaikovsky.

George


Post 2

Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 11:02amSanction this postReply
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George -- Glad you posted aboutthese three truly beautiful symphonies. I like the Ormandy versions with Philadelphia myself but will check out these.

And let's not forget Tchaikovsky's First Symphony, the "Winter Dream." The first movement is wonderfully lyrical. The second starts with a haunting. pensive melody and develops it into a powerful theme. I usually put it on when we have our first major snowfall and watch the beauty of the snowfall with the beauty of that music!


Post 3

Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 11:51amSanction this postReply
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George,
Talk about deja vu. I discovered the Mravinski recordings this way. About a decade ago, I was driving home from a night of teaching at Wheeling Jesuit College and heard an excerpt of one of the three symphonies on the radio. It was on the Jim Svejda show THE RECORD SHELF. I was spellbound. I awaited anxiously for Svejda to reveal the name of the conductor. Then I wrote the name, in the dark and at 60 mph, on a sheet of scrap paper so that I wouldn't forget. Purchased same as soon as I could get to the store. And I agree with your review. He certainly takes these pieces at an unbelievably fast yet precise pace. You can read Svejda's review of the set in his book THE RECORD SHELF GUIDE, pp. 393-4.

As Bob Hope would say, Thanks for the memory.

Fred

Post 4

Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 7:59amSanction this postReply
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Where does one begin to choose with Tchaikovsky there is so much, the beautiful ballets, the theatricality of the 1812 Overture, the brilliant virtuosity of the Piano Concerto in B-flat, the poignant Violin Concerto in D,  and these the last three symphonies.  Romantic, emotional-soaring melody everywhere. My greatest disappointment was to find that his operas are devoid of it.
(Edited by Robert Davison on 6/23, 8:00am)


Post 5

Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 8:36amSanction this postReply
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George thanks for this.

Post 6

Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 9:18amSanction this postReply
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Robert Davidson wrote: "Piano Concerto in B-flat, the poignant Violin Concerto in D"

[Fingers ready to key in a search on Amazon.com] ... and of all the recordings of these concertos your favourite combination of composer, orchestra, and recording company is????

:-)


Post 7

Friday, June 24, 2005 - 8:03amSanction this postReply
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Whinefield,

It's Davison, damn it.  :-)

I have been a Tchaikovsky fan for over 40 years.  I can't answer your question.  I was no fonder of the b-flat concerto when Liberace played it than I was when van Cliburne performed it.  I know the performer brings something to the performance, but unless one's criticism is objective e.g., too much pedal, it is purely subjective. 

Further, one's preference in music is subjective.  I'm sure there are many that find Tchaikovsky's melodies cloying.  One can, for example, admire the craftsmanship of, say, Wagner, and yet hate his music. De Gustibus non disputantum est.


Post 8

Friday, June 24, 2005 - 9:23amSanction this postReply
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Bugger!!!

My humblest apologies.

I must be loosing my sight as well as my hair.

Thank you for your recommendations. My spelling will be fixed shortly...

EDIT:

Actually the post is too old and I can't fix it.

It would seem the only way to fix the error is for you to change your name by deed poll. When do you think you could do that by???

:-) :-)





(Edited by Robert Winefield
on 6/24, 9:28am)


Post 9

Friday, June 24, 2005 - 9:56amSanction this postReply
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Robert,

I'm an old man.  It could take a while.


Post 10

Friday, June 24, 2005 - 11:20amSanction this postReply
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Robert Winefield said: [Fingers ready to key in a search on Amazon.com] ... and of all the recordings of these concertos your favourite combination of composer, orchestra, and recording company is????

Your request gave me another excuse to post on my favorite composer. Here is the link to more Tchaikovsky.

George



Post 11

Friday, June 24, 2005 - 4:43pmSanction this postReply
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" One can, for example, admire the craftsmanship of, say, Wagner, and yet hate his music. De Gustibus non disputantum est."

Sorry Robert, one can't. Only people with no soul and too much useless knowledge of Latin could hate Wagner's music while preferring Tchaikovsky's rather thin melodies. ;^P

Post 12

Friday, June 24, 2005 - 5:23pmSanction this postReply
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Peter writes: "...while preferring Tchaikovsky's rather thin melodies."

Thin, THIN! 

Did he say thin?

Why, the unmitigated gall, the presumption, the monstrous defamation, the horror - the horror ...

Thou shalt not take the name of Tchaikovsky in vain. Violators should be flogged worse than Jesus was in the Passion of Christ.

Sincerely,

George 'the lover of Wagnerian genuis' Cordero

:-)

PS: Tristan und Isolde and Lohengrin are my favorites. I prefer my Wagner under the baton of Solti, his Tristan und Isolde (the early VPO, Birgit Nilsson & Fritz Uhl one ) is heaven on earth.


Post 13

Friday, June 24, 2005 - 6:09pmSanction this postReply
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Robert W—try Mutter/Karajan version of Tchaik Violin Concerto & Weissenberg/Karajan Tchaik Piano Concerto #1 (coupled with Rach 2). Both available from Amazon. If you decide to go for the symphonies, you won't go wrong with any of the recommendations above. Pick up the Manfred Symphony as well!

Linz

Post 14

Friday, June 24, 2005 - 7:30pmSanction this postReply
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Well Peter, Wagner's operas did please the Nazis, but I find them repetitious and exceedingly long.  Have you ever sat through Der Ring des Nibelungen?  Proctologists hand out business cards as you leave.


Post 15

Friday, June 24, 2005 - 8:21pmSanction this postReply
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"I prefer my Wagner under the baton of Solti, his Tristan und Isolde (the early VPO, Birgit Nilsson & Fritz Uhl one ) is heaven on earth."

Solti's Wagner is always full of drama. His 'Ring' is an adventure from first to last--particularly with Culshaw's contributions--and Nilsson is a proud (and loud!) Brunnhilde, exactly as a Brunhilde should be.

But because of the loudness, I do prefer Flagstad's Isolde. You can't imagine Nilsson 'versinking' at the end, she's just too powerful. :-)

Toscanini's orchestral contributions are also wonderfully dramatic, while Karajan and Furtwangler's more sentimental style often offer the perfect contrast to Solti's greater sense of adventure.

Don't waste your money on Tchaikosky, Robert. Save up for the real thing. ;^)

Post 16

Friday, June 24, 2005 - 8:21pmSanction this postReply
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"Well Peter, Wagner's operas did please the Nazis..."

Pleased 'em so much they banned some of them. Is this supposed to be funny, Robert?

Post 17

Saturday, June 25, 2005 - 9:57amSanction this postReply
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Peter,

Don't waste your money on Tchaikosky, Robert. Save up for the real thing. ;^)

 

If you mean by the real thing Wagner, I will ‘waste my money’ on his Italian contemporary.

 

 

"Well Peter, Wagner's operas did please the Nazis..."

 

Pleased 'em so much they banned some of them. Is this supposed to be funny, Robert?

 

Since it was followed by “Proctologists hand out business cards as you leave.”, you might think so.  

 

Some Nazi ideologues had doubts.  In 1939, apparently on the orders of Joseph Goebbels, performances of Parsifal were banned but it had nothing to do with the bulk of Wagner’s work, but rather to an over reaction to Parsifal’s blatant Christian sentimentality.

 

The Nazi party was led by Adolf Hitler, who was as fanatical about Wagner's music as he was about Aryan superiority. (For those who do not know Hitler was a professed Christian.)

 

 

Concerning Wagner I like the following:

 

Rossini said of Wagner that “he had some good moments but some dreadful quarter-hours”;

 

Mark Twain said, “Wagner’s music isn’t as bad as it sounds”;


Woody Allen quipped that, “Wagner gives you the urge to invade Poland.” ;


and even with Adolf Hitler who said, “He who does not know Wagner does not know Germany!”

 

I have met Wolfgang and attended performances at Bayreuth.  I do not consider this fact a spectacular moment in my life.  I prefer Verdi, Puccini, and yes Tchaikovsky, which I suppose says something about my sense of life.

 

PS—I am also glad Beethoven’s 9th is no longer in Wagner’s hands.

 

PPS--We agreee on Birgit Nilsson.

 

(Edited by Robert Davison on 6/25, 10:01am)


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Post 18

Saturday, June 25, 2005 - 10:58amSanction this postReply
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Robert said: I prefer Verdi, Puccini, and yes Tchaikovsky, which I suppose says something about my sense of life.

 

Robert, what exactly am I to gleam about your “sense of life” from the above? 

 

Tchaikovsky is my single favorite composer. However, if I were forced to limit myself to 4 or 5 others as top favorites, Richard Wagner is without a doubt - right there among them. What does this say about my sense of life ?

 

Also, I see that among those you quoted as disliking Wagner is ‘Woody Allen’, I consider that a plus in Wagner’s favor.

 

Quoting famous people that dislike Wagner would end up leaving you on the short end. Consider that composers such as; Mahler, Liszt, Bruckner, Strauss and many others, can be quoted paying tremendous homage to the genius of Wagner. Consider that conductors such as; Solti, Levine, Szell, Furtwangler and endless others - can also be quoted paying homage to Wagner’s genius and the beauty of his music.

 

So, Hitler loved Wagner's music, great; just goes to show that even a supreme 'Son of a Bitch' may accidently have a little good taste. By the way, Joseph Stalin was a fan of Tchaikovsky, but that infers absolutely nothing about the composer’s work or those that enjoy his music.

 

George

(Edited by George W. Cordero on 6/25, 11:05am)


Post 19

Saturday, June 25, 2005 - 1:12pmSanction this postReply
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George,

You have been on the rag, ever since I dained to disagree with you on the Dennis Prager post.  Get over it.

The fact that you like both Tchaikovsky and Strauss probably means you are schizophrenic.;-)


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