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Thursday, September 8, 2005 - 11:29amSanction this postReply
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I am not dissenting from Objectivism on the basis of Kant.  This seemed like a good place to put the discussion. 
 
For me, this started last week in my Law Enforcement Ethics class at Washtenaw Community College.  The textbook places much emphasis on Kant.  Frankly, I think that the police are better off firing blanks than to have their minds blanked-out.
 
However, I understand something of the Seddon-Rawl-Etals discussion here.  So, I still keep my mind open on the subject of Kant.  One complication is that when I was pretty hot in German, I actually tried to read Kant -- and couldn't.  The problem with Kant in English is that I am not sure that we get much more understanding in translation.  As the Italians say about Dante, "Tradurre e tradire" -- to translate is to betray.

Necessity and universality, he declares, cannot be derived from experience, whose subject matter is always particular and contingent, but from the mind alone, from the cognitive forms innate in it. Hence the moral law originates in pure reason and is enunciated by a synthetical judgment a priori--a priori because it has its reason, not in experience, but in the mind itself; synthetical, because it is formed not by the analysis of a conception, but by an extension of it. Reason, dictating the moral law, determines man's actions.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03432a.htm
 
This argument was based on his striking doctrine that a rational will must be regarded as autonomous, or free in the sense of being the author of the law that binds it. The fundamental principle of morality — the CI — is none other than this law of an autonomous will. Thus, at the heart of Kant's moral philosophy is a conception of reason whose reach in practical affairs goes well beyond that of a Humean ‘slave’ to the passions. Moreover, it is the presence of this self-governing reason in each person that Kant thought offered decisive grounds for viewing each as possessed of equal worth and deserving of equal respect.

... the fundamental philosophical issues must be addressed a priori, that is, without drawing on observations of human beings and their behavior. Once we “seek out and establish” the fundamental principle of morality a priori, then we may consult facts drawn from experience in order to determine how best to apply this principle to human beings and generate particular conclusions about how we ought to act.
First, unlike anything else, there is no conceivable circumstance in which we regard our own moral goodness as worth forfeiting simply in order to obtain some desirable object.


Second, as a consequence, possessing and maintaining one's moral goodness is the very condition under which anything else is worth having or pursuing. Intelligence and even pleasure are worth having only on the condition that they do not require giving up a commitment to honor one's fundamental moral convictions.
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/kant-moral/
 


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Thursday, September 8, 2005 - 7:05pmSanction this postReply
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The intellectual errors in the textbook, Ethics in Crime and Justice by Joycelyn M. Pollack, are many.  Morality and ethics are considered synonyms. Morality is good conduct.  "Ethics is the study and analysis of what constitutes good or bad conduct."  The author acknowledges: "The term moral is also used to describe to someone who has the capacity to make value judgments and to discern right from wrong."  Note the use of also.  This is secondary.  The primary definition, the one used throughout the book is that morality is good conduct.  We learned that this is subjective, and different for each person. 

The author defines morality as requiring (a) an act -- as opposed to a thought; (b) a human actor -- as opposed to an animal; (c) deriving from free will -- coerced acts are neither moral nor immoral; and (d) affecting others.

As you can see, this is a mixed-premise presentation.   Considering (d), it would be impossible to be "immoral" on a desert island.  Another student who is a fundamentalist Catholic and I agreed after class that you can be moral or immoral in isolation because your first "duty" is to yourself.  Tonight, the instructor had a hard time with that.  She also had a hard time with my presentation after class on egoism.  She allowed that it is "enlightened egoism" but could not understand how an egoist would be constrained from victimizing other people.  My statement that if you need victims, you are dependent on them and therefore not an egoist fell on deaf ears.

Tonight, we learned that Mother Theresa was "selfish" because her goal was her heavenly reward.

Overall, one goal of the class is to teach diversity.  From discussing with each other what they believe and why, they are to come away with the understanding that morals are relative.  Therefore, in the field, they are not to judge people by their own personal standards.

Another (conflicting) goal is to teach them away from the traditional in-group thinking of cops that makes "loyality to your partner" an avenue to crime.


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Thursday, September 8, 2005 - 7:46pmSanction this postReply
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 Tonight, we learned that Mother Theresa was "selfish" because her goal was her heavenly reward.

Rock on!! There needs to be more instructors like you. At my school, my philosophy instructor has a thing for Heidegger, so he is always rambing on about "is-ness and nothing".

I will follow this discussion, but I don't know much about Kant. What I have read from "Critique of Pure Reason" just doesn't make sense to me.


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Friday, September 9, 2005 - 10:23amSanction this postReply
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Donald Talton wrote: "I will follow this discussion, but I don't know much about Kant. What I have read from "Critique of Pure Reason" just doesn't make sense to me."
There is an a priori reason for that which can become a categorical imperative.  It is categorically imperative that no one provide himself with an a priori reason for reading Kant in any language.
At my school, my philosophy instructor has a thing for Heidegger, so ...
What I love about "Das Ding an sich." is that it makes no more sense in German than it does in English.

Das    Ding    an    sich
The     thing    at     itself. (most literal)
Intentional translations include:
The      thing   in     itself.
The      thing   of     itself.
The      thing   for    itself.
The      thing   to      itself.
The      thing considered in and of itself.

Richard Feynman has a yarn about this in his chapter on why philosophers are idiots.


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Friday, September 9, 2005 - 10:32amSanction this postReply
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Good chuckles! Heidegger would fit it great with the yogis.

I do want to understand Kant though, I will attempt to when I get more time. I want to see what is so "dangerous" about him. I did get that we can't truly "know what we know".

Wouldn't it be grand if all philosophers wrote is such plain language as AR?

(Edited by Donald Talton on 9/09, 10:37am)


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